Paragon's locks and some (destro) questions

[JamayK]

Hi there everyone; 1st of all gratz on the Nef 25 HC kill, brilliant drood idea (can hardly wait for the video). Now... I was following your progress but also Jubeto, Manni and Diivil on armory to see how you're gearing up and what stats do you prior.

So I'll take you one by one :)

Jubeto...
it seams he is the DEMON in the guild, and he stacked up lots of haste that is understandable... and also with this stats, he can easy change to affliction in single target fights. Nothing new... stats look normal to me.

Diivil...
O.o, he's been Paragon's demon in Wrath; I even remember his post about demo and stuff...back in ICC. Now he's destruction in raids and affliction in PvP I think. Well I don't get him updated on raid spec/gear to often, that's because HE'S ALWAYS LOGGING IN PVP GEAR, DAMN! :)

Manni...
Well this is interesting; Manni is destro... and he's @ 7% haste; so he focused on crit a lot, and lower the haste so he would have 7% + 1% race + 15% ISL + 3% DI + 5% raid buff, the 30% for the 2nd Immolate (conflagrate) thick.

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Since I rolled from Demo (wotlk) to Destro now... I'm very curious about Manni's choises (even intel + crit gems).

1. You (manni) have the chance to get top gear in short time; have you ever considered trying to reach the next haste plateu for 3rd immolate thick?

2. Is there really not worth it stacking haste above 7%, if you can't get the next level anyway?

3. Since you went that much into crit, would it be that bad using the crit + crit dmg Meta? Or is it about the "stupid" gemming required for it, and atm this is better the intel one? Still... w8ing for patch here :P

4. I think I've seen some fights with U(manni) demo. Are you really playing demo with 7% haste, or you have "off gear" that is allowing you to do that.

Anyway, I've just seen the fresh Ascendant C video, with the 3 locks nom noming the metters, gratz to all for that. Keep up the good work and gl killing the next 2 (+1) bosses.

Aaa, almost forgot, and Diivil, do logout in PvE gear/spec PLS :))

Cheers to all

[Hermanni]

Hi JamayK, all I can say it's nice to answer to someone who's done some research into the matter. :) I can only answer for myself, but...

1. This isn't possible with my gear and looking at the proposed PTR changes on ISF I rather doubt I'll get there in time. :/

2. It's definitely not a bad idea to have more haste than that, but mine just happens to nicely land around there right now and I'm happy with it for time being.

3. Losing my current meta would cost me more than 100 int, which is more than 2% of my total int. It's just not worth it before they change the requirements for Chaotic.

4. I change my spec whenever it's needed, all the specs have different strengths and we play by them. I re-reforge and change my gear to suit whatever spec is best for a certain (hard) boss.

[JamayK]

Message received (lol), tyvm Manni!
Gush... I didn't knew about patch notes but there it is... some notes that matters in PvE:

The PvE warlock 4-piece set bonus (Fel Spark) now increases the damage done by the next 2 Fel Flame spells by 300%, rather than increasing the critical effect chance of one by 100%.


Improved Soul Fire now increases Fire and Shadow damage done by 4/8%, rather than 7/15% spell haste. In addition, this talent has been moved to tier-3 Destruction, switching places with Aftermath.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/150465/an-analysis-of-future-warlock-changes

No more 2nd Immolate thick now with 7%, damn you were right; they did some changes.

I think this is a big hit for the other 2 specs if u ask me; there's been some QQers about keeping up ISF on all 3 specs, there now affliction and demo don't need to do it anymore. For Destro, with a better amount of haste, the changes may be an improvement, but it's defo a nerf for Affl and Demo :(

[Zhil]

I'm glad you posted this thread, as I've found myself in a a very similiar situation. I also check Manni/Diivil's armoury reguarly, the last I checked Manni had gone for the 30% hastethreshold and the rest into crit whilst Diivil was purely stacking haste (Note: You definitely need to stop logging out in PvP gear Diivil :p). Both spec change often but you've alredy mentioned why - I think I saw Diivil playing affliction on your Valiona/Theralion HC kill so maybe thats why he was stacking haste the last time I checked.

I'm playing Destruction at the moment but the changes upcoming in the PTR have definitely left me in a bit of a twist about which spec to go for now. I personally found that stacking haste as destruction even past the threshold was more of a DPS gain for me pre 4.0.6. Be interesting to see how mastery will scale now with the buff to Fiery Apocalypse though. I'm currently sat at 14.74% haste. Thats going to be 23.74% once ISF changes, way off the threshold. I don't think I'll be able to gain another 7% until my guild starts raiding heroic, I'm pretty much all 359 geared.

Anyhow, got a few questions for you both..

Do you both go for a similiar haste/crit ratio when playing Destruction or have you got different opinions on this? (@Diivil/Manni)
Seeing as clipping DoTs isn't really neccesary anymore at what point do you try to refresh your immolate/corruption?
Which trinkets do you use in destruction at the moment, and if you had a choice which trinkets would you go for?
Finally, got any pro-tips for using Bane of Havok? :)

Keep up the good work.. Oh and thanks to Manni for all the frapsing, thanks to you I now have a nice clean UI - was at a lost for what todo with mine :D

[JamayK]

Ahaha, well @ least Manni explained what's with his stats and that he changes them every day as it is required.
Since now he's @ 12.5 % haste.. he must have been "forced" to play demo to a recent fight, and he went for a quick reforge. If he would had prior haste now, he would have changed the crit - intel gems also :P

Anyway Zhil, our questions are kinda out of date now... since there's a new patch inc that will change things around; I would call it warlock nerf, but aint really that bad, so I will not QQ about the changes but rather look forward to which will be the best itemization - reforge - meta - gems, to get the best from the new changes.

- I believe one is going to be the crit meta, since it will req 3 red
- Another could be prior to haste again, not staying @ 7% anymore

And yes, Diivil did a bad habit from logging in PvP gear :)

I don't think there should be a Bane of Havok guide, it's just simple. Are you going to do a high amount of dmg on a 2nd target (or mass aoe)? Use bane of havoc on 1st, lol! I even overwrite Bane of Doom sometime with havoc, if I find it useful. For example Maloriak, I start with doom(i know, could use agony) in red and blue, and when we go on adds on green, I put Havoc on boss... and go with sick aoe on adds; so 2 adds phase I did with havoc more dmg than I did with doom for the entire fight.

Anyway, many bosses in Cata makes a very nice use of Havoc if u ask me, and still not even 12/12 in normal :P

Anyway, I feel this topic goes far from topic :) I started with patchnotes and u with bane of havoc, soon we will do random talks here, and there's a main topic for that.

But I have an idea; we could force Manni(since he answered here) to come back with a short article about patchnotes and how will he prioritize stats in 4.0.6, and problem solved :))


Yet another off topic:
Can we have full Manni PoV fights? Like are you editing your videos or you send them to someone that collects records from more PoVs and puts them toghether... it's not that I don't like the others PoV's (ofc I do), but I'm interested in warlock more ahaha

[Zhil]

There are some single target situations where using Bane of Havok might be more beneficial though, for example on Ascendant Council or even Conclave of Wind. I'm not sure how it would compare to Bane of Doom though. Was simply asking what fights they have been using it on and why. The rest of my questions are actually relevant to both 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, perhaps the trinket one will be hard to answer as no one seems quite sure on how the stat priorities will scale as of next week.

[Hermanni]

Now that's a fair bit to answer... I'll try not to miss anything (I already know I will though.)

First things first: @JamayK: I'd like to hear how does one go sick with AoE as destro :)
@Zhil: I'd like to hear where you get your info on patch release dates :)

About DoTs, you should aim to refresh them between the last and second to last tick (excluding BoA) whenver possible, but never before the second to last tick. As for trinkets, Theralion's Mirror is strong for anything because of the high Int yield, part from that I don't really have much insight into the matter I feel confident enough to share.

As for Bane of Havoc, I don't think it's complex enough to merit it's own guide. You shouldn't try to hassle too much with overwriting Doom with Havoc and then the other way around for small target switches, though. I can share one tip with you though, unless it has been changed by Blizzard, which is that if you slap BoH on Magmaw's body before he slumps, the Havoc damage is dealt to the boss while you DPS the head and it benefits from the bonus damage taken by Exposed Head. So while other people deal 200% of their normal damage, you get to 230% :) Havoc is very useful on Conclave, Magmaw, Nefarian, Halfus, V&T and Council, and it has some uses on other bosses as well.

There isn't much to be said about the patch notes except that losing ISF hurts, I'll go and blame the mongoloids who got goosebumps out of casting a fire spell as Affliction. Haste should look attractive again when it's possible to re-hit the 30% mark, which is a fair amount easier than hitting the old 50%-mark. After that, I'm not sure if I'd bother with much more. I don't feel like there's much point in analyzing much until the patch is out or there is at least a build labeled as a release candidate on the PTR, and will take whatever is posted on EJ with a grain of salt for now. While the patch overall seems a bit nerfy it at least brings some deeply craved things, like the chaotic meta and bracer enchants (and synapse springs for my rogue \o/)

Also, all glory for putting up and editing our videos goes to Maeil, for my only skill is usually remembering to press the record button in Fraps. And unfortunately I'm not ambitious enough to push out my own videos and I think I've already disposed of most of my old recordings.

[JamayK]

Welll Manny, maybe sick it was to much... and as destro, we aren't even close with Demo for example. Anyway, I am sure that having bane of havoc on the boss when u got shadoflame/shadowfury/infernal(if off cd) and area aoe if the adds are well grped in green phase, it worth more than having doom on the boss :)

I've seen that thing on Magmaw also; you can actually fill the body with dots and Havoc when the head is being tied down, and U will get nice dmg while nuking the head with bonus also. Still... we can do the other way around. We can put Havoc on the Head 1st time it's exposed, and 15% from dmg we do on the ads and body till head it's exposed again... may be more dmg.

for my only skill is usually remembering to press the record button in Fraps

I loled! It's ok, was just wondering if u have them; no problem... focus on killing the other 3 bosses you have left now and you'll be forgiven!

Ooo, and thanks you all for your time here :)

[Zhil]

For some reason I had it in my head that 4.0.6 would be out next week. Wishful thinking perhaps. Although the only real thing I'm looking forward too in the patch is my hunter no longer doing +2K DPS more than me :D Thanks for the insight and good luck with #11 & #12! :)