LK HC specc-question

[arukie]

Hey Kruf.

Why are you using Chimera-glyph? It seems to me that chimera-glyph messes up the rotation.

However, seeing your damage on LK fights are in top 5 Im starting to wonder what I should change in my specc and playstyle.

Im guessing you use your hawk-eye build for LK?

We're using two hunters for horrors and we both dps LK in the first transition. The second transition there's way too many spheres to keep the damage up on LK from my experience.

Last question: What's your opening on LK? Serpent->Chimera->Aimed->RF->Readiness->Chimera->Aimed->Steady?

Edit: Im macroing SS to Chimera and Aimed. Should this be changed?

[arukie]

Also, I see very few hunters in high end guilds using IHM+glyph. Spreadsheets shows this as highest dps, but Im not sure anymore. Any thoughts?

[Kruf]

Why are you using Chimera-glyph? It seems to me that chimera-glyph messes up the rotation.

I have no problems dealing with a priority-based rotation instead of a fixed one, and Chimera glyph makes it easier to keep the sting up in fights with adds (which is most fights in ICC25).

Im guessing you use your hawk-eye build for LK?

Yes; it was especially made for the 0% buff kill to minimize reliance on others and maximize dps potential in the critical phases of the fight.

The rough reasoning behind dropping some "obvious dps talents" for other stuff goes like this:

Extended range is necessary to be able to take down the orbs faster (and allows for less movement in last phase). It also allows you to keep sting rolling on LK during the transition phases.

Being out of mana is a huge dps hit and often happens during Val'kyrs (the most critical phase of the fight), so taking 2/2 Rapid Recuperation instead of some slight damage increase talent makes sense. Especially since you get a lot of killing blows during the transitions, which gives a lot of mana via Rapid Killing/Rapid Recuperation combo.

We're using two hunters for horrors and we both dps LK in the first transition. The second transition there's way too many spheres to keep the damage up on LK from my experience.

You should always try to dps LK during the transition phases when possible, at least try to keep your sting rolling on it. You do also always want to kill at least some spheres to trigger the mana return from Rapid Killing/Rapid Recuperation. Unless you're good friends with the druids and can get Innervates... ;)

Last question: What's your opening on LK? Serpent->Chimera->Aimed->RF->Readiness->Chimera->Aimed->Steady?

Yes, for 30% buff kill, at 0% I saved the first Rapid Fire since we always use one Bloodlust right at the start to get it again near the end.

Edit: Im macroing SS to Chimera and Aimed. Should this be changed?

Doesn't really matter, long as you get it used when it comes from CD you're fine.

Also, I see very few hunters in high end guilds using IHM+glyph. Spreadsheets shows this as highest dps, but Im not sure anymore. Any thoughts?

It's not possible to fit in IHM with all the other dps talents (even less so if you need to also bring TSA). Last time I checked IHM didn't really rank that high in top end gear. Not sure which spreadsheet you're using though.

[arukie]

Hey Kruf. Thanks for the response!

I have no problems dealing with a priority-based rotation instead of a fixed one, and Chimera glyph makes it easier to keep the sting up in fights with adds (which is most fights in ICC25).

I can understand that, but from my experience the chimera glyph causes the gaps between CS and AS too small to fit a Steady Shot between them if you know what I mean. The castingtime of Steady Shot is longer than the GCD.
Regarding making it easier to keep the Serpent Sting up I see your point and got nothing to argument on you on that part.

This is what I have ended up with using for LK HC. It's not completely the same as your specc, because I don't need to bring Trueshot Aura.
I had no mana issues with that specc, but Im a blood-elf and you're an orc and of course that has something to do with it aswell.
I decided not to put my last point in Improved Steady Shot because 1 point in Survival Instincts gave me higher dps and my mana is fine with Rapid Recup and Rapid Killing.

Would you say that this is a nice build for that encounter?

You do also always want to kill at least some spheres to trigger the mana return from Rapid Killing/Rapid Recuperation. Unless you're good friends with the druids and can get Innervates... ;)

Some? :D More like every single one of them unless you like to see your raid get kicked off the edge, don't you agree? ;)
We rarely bring more than two hunters so I am always one of those to kill spheres. Unfortunately I would never get an Innvervate from a druid. I should definately force one of them though.

It's not possible to fit in IHM with all the other dps talents (even less so if you need to also bring TSA). Last time I checked IHM didn't really rank that high in top end gear. Not sure which spreadsheet you're using though.

As you can see from my armory-link I only provide IHM during 11/12.
Im using http://www.femaledwarf.com for my testings. If I set the spreadsheet to use my hunter's mark for calculations, I will lose ~30dps by using 3/3 Improved Steady Shot and 1/3 Improved Hunter's Mark rather than 3/3 Improved Hunter's Mark and 1/3 Improved Steady Shot.

In your case however, the results were that you lost ~9dps. I guess that's because you are the person in your raids that has to specc for 10% AP since I can't see any of your Death Knights doing it. Because If I removed Trueshot Aura from your tree and added that point into Improved Steady Shot, you gained ~30dps if a death knight or another hunter provided you with the aura.

Do you think I have done the right choice by bringing 3IHM instead of 3ISS for 11/12 in relation to the explanation I wrote above?


Last question: Would you say it's nice to put down Explosive Trap when you stack for Valk'yrs or is it a complete mana waste? One of our other hunters is using Volley on the stacking. I don't do it because I feel the damage you cause is small compared to the manacost.


Thanks for taking the time to discuss. :)

[Kruf]

Hey Kruf. Thanks for the response!

I have no problems dealing with a priority-based rotation instead of a fixed one, and Chimera glyph makes it easier to keep the sting up in fights with adds (which is most fights in ICC25).

I can understand that, but from my experience the chimera glyph causes the gaps between CS and AS too small to fit a Steady Shot between them if you know what I mean. The castingtime of Steady Shot is longer than the GCD.

Note that the rotation does not align properly even without the glyph when IAotH procs (it seems to have roughly 50% uptime in some logs I checked), so it isn't really all that different - and you don't really have a "gap between CS and AS" since the timing is completely inconstant with the glyph (obviously you shoot the Chimera first, otherwise you just waste the glyph since the cooldowns will just overlap all the time).

Cast time for Steady is pretty much exactly as long as GCD when you have any haste buff on (which is far more than 50% of the fights, considering IAotH, Bloodlust and potions).

This is what I have ended up with using for LK HC. It's not completely the same as your specc, because I don't need to bring Trueshot Aura.
I had no mana issues with that specc, but Im a blood-elf and you're an orc and of course that has something to do with it aswell.
I decided not to put my last point in Improved Steady Shot because 1 point in Survival Instincts gave me higher dps and my mana is fine with Rapid Recup and Rapid Killing.

Would you say that this is a nice build for that encounter?

It looks okay, though you might want to note that you aren't getting full benefit from Survival Instincts (though, not really from Improved Steady Shot either) in this fight - since it's such a rather mobile fight, you just can't get the normal amount of Steady Shots out. I don't quite agree with the Hawk glyph though, since even without it your Steady Shots are GCD capped when the buff procs.

You do also always want to kill at least some spheres to trigger the mana return from Rapid Killing/Rapid Recuperation. Unless you're good friends with the druids and can get Innervates... ;)

Some? :D More like every single one of them unless you like to see your raid get kicked off the edge, don't you agree? ;)
We rarely bring more than two hunters so I am always one of those to kill spheres. Unfortunately I would never get an Innvervate from a druid. I should definately force one of them though.

If you run with 2 hunters like you said, there's not really any need for both to constantly nuke spheres in the first transition phase, unless you get really unlucky with crits you can easily clear the area alone (while keeping sting rolling on LK, too) - but you still do want to get a few killing blows in to get the mana.

It's not possible to fit in IHM with all the other dps talents (even less so if you need to also bring TSA). Last time I checked IHM didn't really rank that high in top end gear. Not sure which spreadsheet you're using though.

As you can see from my armory-link I only provide IHM during 11/12.
Im using http://www.femaledwarf.com for my testings. If I set the spreadsheet to use my hunter's mark for calculations, I will lose ~30dps by using 3/3 Improved Steady Shot and 1/3 Improved Hunter's Mark rather than 3/3 Improved Hunter's Mark and 1/3 Improved Steady Shot.

In your case however, the results were that you lost ~9dps. I guess that's because you are the person in your raids that has to specc for 10% AP since I can't see any of your Death Knights doing it. Because If I removed Trueshot Aura from your tree and added that point into Improved Steady Shot, you gained ~30dps if a death knight or another hunter provided you with the aura.

Do you think I have done the right choice by bringing 3IHM instead of 3ISS for 11/12 in relation to the explanation I wrote above?

It largely boils down to whether you ever have mana issues in that case, since just one shot in AotV will easily negate that ~30dps gain (30dps * 120sec = 3600 damage over 2min fight).

Last question: Would you say it's nice to put down Explosive Trap when you stack for Valk'yrs or is it a complete mana waste? One of our other hunters is using Volley on the stacking. I don't do it because I feel the damage you cause is small compared to the manacost.

The manacost is completely irrelevant if you run a real LK spec like yours or mine - Rapid Killing/Rapid Recuperation should give you enough mana that you can spam almost whatever you want to and never have issues with low mana. For max damage you want to drop a trap, then Volley if there's time even for just one tick of it to hit.

On the first kill, which was where things mattered the most (sadly I hadn't come up with my optimized spec back then), I dropped trap on every Val'kyr spawn, and used Volley whenever Defile would allow me to get the whole cast (or even most of it) out before having to move, since Val'kyr dps was by far the most critical thing - I'd switch to AotV for regen when nuking boss if necessary.