Priest discussion

[Siccmixx]

Hello,

I am writing you today for a bit of advise or "what would you do in my situation". In my guild we have recently downed Heroic Sindragosa 25 for the second week in a row putting us at 11/12 Heroic 25 and are now looking into putting many hours into Heroic LK. We have recently lost our Disc. priest due to real life things, and to help the guild out i am going to use my OS for Disc, while Holy is my preferred main spec.

So i have noticed from reading forums and just the principles of a disc priest is to Pound SP gems in everything to bump up Power word: Shield. Now as my Holy Main Spec, re-gemming all SP i will go from 781 haste down to 581, and gain around ~280SP, To me 200haste is HUGE but i may be horribly wrong too. I noticed you are Holy/Disc and i was curious to how much of a difference did you notice losing all that haste while holy spec. or if it wasnt noticeable. Should i just start collecting another set of gear for Pure SP gemming? I just fear regemming is going to harm my performance while Holy.

Here is a link to my armory page http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&cn=Siccmixx The gear shown is what i raid in 98% of fights in ICC.

Any answers or advise is extremely appriciated.

Edit: My Disc. Spec is obviously PVP right now and will be changing it soon.

[newpriest]

I have frequented this thread since making my priest and have leanred more from you guys than any other source.
I have a couple questions though that i do not believe have been directly answered (i am hoping, if i am wrong and you have already answered them i appologize).
I will ask my questions under the assumption that all item levels are equal and available, i277 works best so that for rings, the rep ring does not outweigh the other options.
I have studied stat weights so that is not so much what i am asking, more...with a full set of gear, what is most desireable (although for haste v. crit for holy i see alot of debate).

Questions are asked from a Hpriest perspective.
Q1: After 4pt10, is it best that all other items have spirit on them, and equally balance haste and crit (ie would the spirit rings be better than one and the ashen ring)? Are there any items with sp-crit-haste that should be looked for.
Q2: If all gear did have spirit on it, would you then switch to all SP gems, if sooner; at what amount of spirit would you make the gem switch?
Q3: At the moment i run with 1-2 resto druids so i still see value in serendipity. I still find myself using renew as my go to, but with a healthy amount of hots going out to the raid i think the the points in serendipity are worthwhile. Would you agree?
Q4: Does spirit and its contribution to sp make it obsolete to say "I dont run oom, so i can now switch a piece of spirit gear for a crit-haste piece."

(I know alot of these questions are directly related. I am looking for an answer/answers to what questions you think are important to this thread).

[Nyneave]

Hello Jhazrun,

After reading through these 12 pages I figured to aim my post towards you as you seem to be more active (and friendly!) and Zhinn appears to be afk/casual according to the armory.

I play Holy mainspec but my gear is far from the best. My armory is here:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... cn=Nyneave

I'm in a guild that is now reformed and irks for progression without being hardcore. As of yesterday we're now 11/12 ICC10hc and 7/12 ICC25hc.

I've noticed that you realize the value of haste, but think that PoH is archaic because of Serendipity. Why not use PoH without Serendipity? I agree that casting 3x flash heal (or binding heal which is better on so many fights since they're ALL AURA FIGHTS FFS) just to cast a faster PoH is stupid, but stacking haste gives you a very attractive cast time on PoH.

In short, the ICC buff, which if I prioritized pure spellpower, causes a lot of overhealing -- so I went for a haste heavy build to hit the 1269 cap.

This means 2.0s PoH cast (the auras tick every 2 seconds). Have you guys ever experimented playing like this (akin to a resto shaman actually) or what are your thoughts?
Getting 1 group requires 5 GCDs and ~600*5 = 3000 mana with Renew. PoH does it in ~half the time and ~half the mana. Renew also can't deal with burst damage; all it does is bring stability.

A respectful salute from Spain,
Nyneave

[Jhazrun]

Quite the eyeful you have there, redemer, Ivanoize, domtheskater, Marchen, Siccmixx, newpriest, and Nyneave,

What tier item you should not eqquip i seen that major of us get the 277 sanguine chest is it an coincidence?
What is better crit or haste for disc if haste capped?
What macros u use?
What icc25 hm would you suggest going holy? Is it ok if i stay disc for all fights?

Can u give us few tips about healing as disc on lK25hm , i heard that you you should not buff forti for less infest healing and lower rank pw:s for riptide is it true? how do you mana manage there? do you power infusion yourself? How often u use penance and in what situations?

I think healing foucs is kinda not very usefull for disc why people spec for it?

What do you think about the new talents for cata?

Sanguine Silk Robes are a very accessible and low-demand piece with a high, well-spent budget. Taking a still-in-value Heroic token for what is actually a worse-itemized version ranks fairly high in Dalaran Laughing Stocks 2010.

For Discipline, the scales of Crit and (post-cap)-Haste matter little, as neither has an established edge in ten-man raiding, and both are equally worthless in 25-man encounters. Opt for whatever has more Spell Power.

Beyond mouse-over macros for all of my in-combat support spells, I believe my only true ones are Shadowfiend-/petattack and the standard Inner Focus-Divine Hymn.

Icecrown Citadel is heavily polarized in that Discipline plays a very useful role in damage spike nullification for the first third of the bosses, followed by Upper Spire bursting at the seams with damage auras and other mechanics (see Valithria) that completely negate everything the spec has to offer (Holy without question for those).
And then there's the Lich King…

The exercise in absurdity concerning the interaction between Infest and Power Word: Fortitude took wing with a single screenshot of Zhinn's "revealing" a "secret strategy" in the form of a /cancelaura macro. Of course, in the midst of the BP-esque stream of exploit theories no one felt the same macro finding its way back to Anub'arak all that important… To date no one has actually exploited the encounter with any degree of success.
Mana management is conducted by leaving without shields the raid members that would take damage before the next Infest and prematurely shut down Rapture.
Power Word: Shield isn't ever ranked down in the Heroic 25-man version. The Warsong, however, has led to powerful enough shields for non-HC that geared priests take a little off the to preserve their professional pride from having to call for 'Vates in a normal-mode encounter at this point in the game.

I synch my Power Infusion with our Balance Druid's Lunar Eclipse.

Penance is my go-to spell in P3 as my role shifts to a supporting tank healer.

I'm comfortable with the direction of Cataclysm, and as a related note think that Body and Soul's newfound synergy with Leap of Faith is absolutely adorable.

In a 5 man heroic dungeon, I was healing as Disc, my group are getting damage at the same time and all of them is on weakened soul, what I can use to control the situation?
I was wondering in using my Prayer of healing but is so low in healing and large cast time and I don't want to use my Divine Hymn on this situation... Any idea?

Your number one priority is, of course, to predict the waves of heavy damage and pre-shield your group.
If you're looking at an extended period of steady pressure, an effective method of pushing up your HPS is to alternate between Power Word: Shield and Prayer of Healing for perfect Borrowed Time, weaving in Penance for tank healing.

I was wondering which would be a better choice as a holy priest in icc dying light heroic or Trauma heroic with the sindra offhand also heroic?

Is there any specific advice you can give as a holy priest going into Lich king 25 heroic?

Also if you could advice me which gear to replace 1st that would be great
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... mtheskater

The [Sundial] is in all likelyhood not something worth pursuing over Druids, especially if the [Light] is already within your grasp. If one does come across a semi-free ['Dial], I certainly wouldn't chastise them for pairing it up with a 277 weapon.

At Heroic Lich King you're there to plug your Discipline priest's inevitable leaks. Make sure to watch the status of his shields, and open each Infest wave with a prepared Prayer of Mending and a pre-cast one-two combo of Prayer of Healing and Circle of Healing on the groups least protected by Power Word: Shield.

There isn't much at all in your equipment that you or anyone could actively upgrade, future boss drops largely dictating the order. Your only choice of free will comes at your first Heroic token, where it forks into the distinct looks of the shoulders and the min-maxed budget advantage of the leggings.
My socketing would center around Spell Power rather than Haste, though.

How much haste I must have as a Holy Priest?

I'm really confused about it when I have to choose what gear I'll use. For example:
[Circle of Ossus] and [Lingering Illness], [Sandals of the Mourning Widow] and [Sandals of Consecration],[Death Surgeon's Sleeves] and [Bindings of the Ashen Saint] AND the especial [Ring of Maddening Whispers] and [Ashen Band of Endless Wisdom]

PS: I made this profile to check this: http://www.wowhead.com/profile=21231460

Holy has very few concerns of stat optimization. The rule of thumb picks up whatever has more stuff, generally derived from iLevel, and the rest follows its natural course.
The [Illness] and [Ossus'] do share the same iLevel, so it becomes a matter of cost and accessibility. If you're still saving up Emblems for more unique pieces, you'll want to first give Festergut a few chances in the meantime to save you sixty.

The profile of yours is pretty much solid with the exception of the Mp5 enchants and the missing socket bonus of [Maddening Whispers]
Not long from now the Ruby Sanctum will also replace the [Solace] with the oh-so-much more elegeant [Glowing Twilight Scale] (or its Heroic version for the true BiS piece).

Re-gemming all SP i will go from 781 haste down to 581, and gain around ~280SP. How much of a difference did you notice losing all that haste while holy spec?

25-man Discipline indeed aims for pure Spell Power. While giving up Haste may feel awkward as Holy, keep in mind what you're ultimately there for; Hasted Circle of Healing and Prayer of Mending actually lose potency, where the HPS of that bonus Renew here and there is simply leeched from the druids.

Q1: After 4pt10, is it best that all other items have spirit on them, and equally balance haste and crit (ie would the spirit rings be better than one and the ashen ring)? Are there any items with sp-crit-haste that should be looked for.
Q2: If all gear did have spirit on it, would you then switch to all SP gems, if sooner; at what amount of spirit would you make the gem switch?
Q3: At the moment i run with 1-2 resto druids so i still see value in serendipity. I still find myself using renew as my go to, but with a healthy amount of hots going out to the raid i think the the points in serendipity are worthwhile. Would you agree?
Q4: Does spirit and its contribution to sp make it obsolete to say "I dont run oom, so i can now switch a piece of spirit gear for a crit-haste piece."

iLevel > SPI > Haste > Crit

One can't go much wrong following the above rule-of-thumb when comparing similar items. If it doesn't have SPI, it'd better be of a higher iLevel. More often than not the "balance" of Haste and Crit is a result of blatantly wearing the highest level items.
Haste-Crit is generally not a major factor in healing priest itemization thanks to SPI alternatives, with the unique exception of the lonely 277 [Plague Scientist's Boots]. The gains, however, fail to outweight other classes' demand, as concluded in an earlier post.

All-out Spell Power socketing is based largely on your role as Discipline, as Holy accommodates the gems of the former much more kindly than vice versa.

Serendipity falls to its innate tension in spell functions; No encounter with heavy enough damage input for Prayer of Healing to be of any use has room for one as light as Flash Heal.

Spirit plays a part in far too much synergy for an equal-level piece of Haste-Crit to be worthy of consideration.

Why not use PoH without Serendipity?
Getting 1 group requires 5 GCDs and ~600*5 = 3000 mana with Renew. PoH does it in ~half the time and ~half the mana. Renew also can't deal with burst damage; all it does is bring stability.

Renew is sadly not what Prayer of Healing's to be measured against ― after all, it's just something you weave in when nothing else is ready.
Rejuvenation is. All it takes is a handful of GCDs a cycle.

Prayer of Healing is parasitic, inflexible, immobile non-scaling… In not a single task does it out-druid a druid, and cripples every other tool in the box in order to even try. Damage spikes hit members of multiple groups at a time, and the capacity to only reach five pre-determined ones out of twenty-five every two seconds fails to perform to those standards.

I respect your efforts in trying to make it work, but the numbers just don't add up for high-end raiding. At the very least Renew triggers Holy Concentration.

[Ivanoize]

I wanna know which of these items is best to my holy starter gear, Merlin's Robe or Royal Moonshroud Robe and the wrists: Bejewled Wizard's Bracers or Royal Moonshroud Bracers? I was in doubt if I get haste or mana regen, because Im starting a new gear to get in ICC/ToC25.

[juandilol]

Jhazrun, first let me say that I think it's amazing that you take the time to answer our questions!

Mine is pretty simple. How would you convince a Holy Priest to take Improved Renew and Empowered Renew talents? In fact, had you ever seen a Holy Priest without those talents? I'm a caster DPS in my guild, but I am pretty sure those talents are a must-have.

What can you say about this?

Thanks in advance!

[bash]

Hi, This is my char http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Narkissus

Would like to ask what items should I get or change + enchants/gems etc.

Thx for your time :)

[Mehra]

Hello, Jhazrun.

Sanguine Silk Robes are a very accessible and low-demand piece with a high, well-spent budget. Taking a still-in-value Heroic token for what is actually a worse-itemized version ranks fairly high in Dalaran Laughing Stocks 2010.

I had a question about this comment. Couldn't another alternative be to take the San'layn Ritualist Gloves instead of the tier 277 gloves, and then grab the tier 277 chest? This combination of gear would yield the same amount of spell power, but you would trade ~100 haste for ~115 crit.

I wanted to get your opinion on this, because my guild has only looted one Sanguine Silk Robes, and it went to a resto druid. However, we've looted more San'layn Ritualist Gloves then we know what to do with.

Your insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Mehra

[bubat]

Hey I am mainly a disc priest (though i sometimes pick up holy for off but been pvping) for my 25 man heroic raid, we are 8/12 or so into icc, i am going to be stacking spell power i havnt completely cause i was playing around with some numbers, but the guy above me was asking about the prince gloves over the prince chest, now i have both the gloves and the best and i dont know which one to pick.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... s&cn=Bubat this is my armory if you have any advice for what i should change i wouldnt mind, alot the gear i need hasnt dropped and my guild doesnt get and priest pallie or lock tokens at all for some reason.

[Stowned]

Well, if you compare getting the Tierchest and the gloves from the princes to getting the Tiergloves and the chest from the princes you end up with the following numbers:

Tierchest + offset gloves vs Tiergloves + offset chest:
SP: -1
Spirit: -24
Haste/Crit: +24 itemizationpoints

So, basically, by getting the offset gloves instead of the chest you lose Spirit but gain more throughput.
The more important question is tho. Do you want all that crit that comes from going with the offset gloves or would you rather get the haste from the offset Robe?
Whatever you chose it depends on your raidassignments and your playstyle I guess. If you're solely looking to gear a shieldspamming, raidhealing disc, then I'd say the crit from the offset gloves will be more valuable to you. It's been shown that crit slightly pulls ahead over haste when spamming shields. The reason for that is that PW:S glyph can crit, and while spamming shields haste adds nothing (assuming you're already at the hardcap).
If you find yourself going holy every once in a while or raid alot of 10man stuff, then going for the offset Robe with the haste might be better for you.

All in all, whichever offspec piece you go with you cant really go wrong. Just look at the way you play and your role in your raids and you should be able to pick what suits you the best.

EDIT: And yes, I'm also interested what Jhazrun has to say regarding this as I've been thinking about what piece to get myself for quite some time. Jhazrun > all.