The LFR discussion

[naPS]

Yeah and what exactly were the chances for him to win the championship?
Do you like other examples? How about Maradona, who is explicitly famous for cheating, and still is considered one of the best soccer players ever. He was awarded as the best soccer player of the century (together with Pele) and nobody cares about his doping and drug scndals, his often immoral playing methods.

Must be a EU thing. Over here on the other side of the pond, he would get hammered.

[Daimyo]

It's mildly amusing considering that verbal lashing you gave other exploiters in the past before you were the top guild in the world.

I dont know what guild you are speaking of. All i know is that since Paragon was created, its been on top from day 1. Unless you remember guild called Underground Kosmonavts, wich also got sneak peak from Algalon as the first guild in the world (but i bet you have no idea what you are speaking of anyways). I have followed Paragon from day 1 and im sad that this shit happened, but i still have high hopes in that Hardmode MOD is so insanely tuned that Paragon gets it down fastest. Next time, let the cheaters cheat.

[Failadin]

I logged in 30 minutes ago to unequip some items from my character for general amusement. Great success.

As another poster stated, that comment their is what makes this "juicy" to the general WoW community. Not needling or trolling but can anyone in Paragon really say that comment melds with the apology? That comment to me, and by the looks of it others, says "I am above you, I have no fear of repercussions suck it losers ha"


That said, you know it, and most if not all know you're one of the if not the best players in the world. I know and understand that if Michael Phelps is wearing aerodynamic swim trunks that shave .004 seconds off a lap, you damn well better wear them as well if you intend on winning. That doesn't excuse what happened by you or the other top guilds, or anyone for that matter. But it is reasonable for me to understand, as it should be for anyone if they look at it realistically. The problem still lies in Hermannis comment. That comment takes a lot of "we only did it to stay competitive" goodwill and spits on it, sadly. Summary, his comment and actions made your entire guild look really bad.

Having a sense of humor helps.

I am not doubting that. I am doubting you thought when you posted that, that you would get punished. You were baiting people. I do like other Paragons posts, they came across as genuine and I can and do respect that. But your post was not humor it was a cocky statement, and action. I know you kick raid bosses asses, your entire raid team does. But that doesn't make you or anyone else above a punishment. Admit it, at the time of that post you didn't think any repercussions where on the horizon. I am sorry for pointing you out Hermanni, I am sure others made statements equally as callous, and I have been in your mindset before. I just think this whole affair is horrible, I do not participate in firsts of any kind on WoW, but I enjoy the race. I don't think the exploit shaved 8 days off your progression either so punishment > crime.

The only good thing to come off this is, which "top" guilds that didn't get banned, will fail because they do not theory craft, they copy.

[Hermanni]

Yeah and what exactly were the chances for him to win the championship?
Do you like other examples? How about Maradona, who is explicitly famous for cheating, and still is considered one of the best soccer players ever. He was awarded as the best soccer player of the century (together with Pele) and nobody cares about his doping and drug scndals, his often immoral playing methods.

Must be a EU thing. Over here on the other side of the pond, he would get hammered.

Even I know Maradona was from Argentina (even he probably didn't spend most of his career playing there) so you'd only need to cross a canal instead of a pond.

Also, your white knight posts aren't very original. Diamondtear and zyn wrote pretty good posts about the situation in general and you're just hammering it with the generic "BUT CHEATING IS WRONG AND NOW YOU MUST SUFFER FOR YOUR SINS."

[Opustjej]

Yeah and what exactly were the chances for him to win the championship?
Do you like other examples? How about Maradona, who is explicitly famous for cheating, and still is considered one of the best soccer players ever. He was awarded as the best soccer player of the century (together with Pele) and nobody cares about his doping and drug scndals, his often immoral playing methods.

Must be a EU thing. Over here on the other side of the pond, he would get hammered.

That really made me laugh! Funny how you guys "on the other side of the pond" just recently banned the use of drugs and illegal substances from both NHL, ML and NFL. Even today your regulations and suspensions are a big joke. Prop yourself full of steroids and get 6 games suspension, thats only possible in one country in the world, USA, also known as the country of cheaters outside your own ignorant country.

Please stop that moral preaching, you really do sound stupid.

[Hermanni]

I am not doubting that. I am doubting you thought when you posted that, that you would get punished. You were baiting people. I do like other Paragons posts, they came across as genuine and I can and do respect that. But your post was not humor it was a cocky statement, and action. I know you kick raid bosses asses, your entire raid team does. But that doesn't make you or anyone else above a punishment. Admit it, at the time of that post you didn't think any repercussions where on the horizon. I am sorry for pointing you out Hermanni, I am sure others made statements equally as callous, and I have been in your mindset before. I just think this whole affair is horrible, I do not participate in firsts of any kind on WoW, but I enjoy the race. I don't think the exploit shaved 8 days off your progression either so punishment > crime.

The only good thing to come off this is, which "top" guilds that didn't get banned, will fail because they do not theory craft, they copy.

I knew there was a good chance we might get punished but it doesn't mean I couldn't make something fun out of the situation (or everyone else who did.) I can still look back at it without regrets and have a laugh at how many times I saw Wakoz's armory being linked. And honestly in our position I rather like to think humor sometimes is the only way to cope with the community.

[Failadin]

Yeah and what exactly were the chances for him to win the championship?
Do you like other examples? How about Maradona, who is explicitly famous for cheating, and still is considered one of the best soccer players ever. He was awarded as the best soccer player of the century (together with Pele) and nobody cares about his doping and drug scndals, his often immoral playing methods.

Must be a EU thing. Over here on the other side of the pond, he would get hammered.

That really made me laugh! Funny how you guys "on the other side of the pond" just recently banned the use of drugs and illegal substances from both NHL, ML and NFL. Even today your regulations and suspensions are a big joke. Prop yourself full of steroids and get 6 games suspension, thats only possible in one country in the world, USA, also known as the country of cheaters outside our own ignorant country.

Please stop that moral preaching, you really do sound stupid.

Heh, the NFL players union still has notallowed HGH testing (Human Growth Hormone) even though they agreed to it months ago. Most analysts see this as a stall tactic to ensure the players have enough time for the drugs to leave the players system. /hijack

[Canafly]

Yeah, cheating is an EU thing. Not like US presidents were ever lying, caught for lying and had seen no consequences. 90% of the things Bush said were lies - Americans cared? Sure, they reelected him. Cannot tell you any US examples for sports, but to be honest, this can be applied in all circumstances. It's primarely US companies who are famous for exploiting foreign markets. Often with the use of child labor etc. You might apply all the morals you want in one field, completely ignoring them in other fields.

Also your points about moral integrity are completely off topic. Everyone knows that it was wrong - but people do wrong things, you might have noticed.

[Failadin]

I knew there was a good chance we might get punished but it doesn't mean I couldn't make something fun out of the situation (or everyone else who did.) I can still look back at it without regrets and have a laugh at how many times I saw Wakoz's armory being linked. And honestly in our position I rather like to think humor sometimes is the only way to cope with the community.

Once again and for the final time, as an outsider looking in, it looked like actions and words of a spoiled brat not humor.
I will add, screw the community. You are sponsored for getting firsts which equals attention which equals free advertising for your sponsors. To take it on a tangent, you are not playing for me, or the community. You are playing the game for yourselves and to be first. Do not allow us to dictate how you react, you're not an idol to anyone but the most diehard fanboy if them.

I wish you the best Hermanni, and Paragon. I know your awesome players and will succeed this tier even with the suspension.

[DiamondTear]

But it 100% of the time doesn't lead to the wrong result. Which was the point of my second post. Sure, you could weigh the risk / reward of your action, but in the end, you're leaving your fate in the hands of someone else... which goes completely contradictory to the example you gave about crossing the street.

If you look at the situation objectively, not exploiting would have guaranteed the wrong result. Either they would have had an advantage or they would have been banned. Either way the race wouldn't have been fair.

We'd rather guarantee an even footing than risk advantage for either guild.