Death Knight discussion

[zYN]

What are your thoughts on Blood vs Unholy to maximize DPS?

My thoughts are that I'm never going to be able to reach high enough ArP with Blood for it to be outperforming Unholy. Read: somewhere between now and until the patch on PTR hits live. I'm definitely going to be playing Frost, unless some kind of major nerf hits the spec. It's a significant increase to my DPS compared to what I'm doing with UH now. With that said, there's a few fights where Blood definitely outperforms UH (Blood Queen and probably Marrowgar).

We're of course going to keep one DK as Unholy. It would be a bit silly not to - Ebon Plague is easily worth it in our usual raid setups. It's probably going to be Liha, considering he's got the BiS weapon (pre-LK HC) etc.

Blood vs UH is definitely going to turn into favor of Blood after some weeks, though. The damage increase present in ICC doesn't affect pets properly (yet, anyway). It's still fine at 5%, but imagine when the buff hits a 20% mark? Suddenly, a big chunk of UHs damage doesn't scale and the overall damage drops too much compared to other specs.


Second (somewhat off-topic) interesting point is that the sub-spec in Frost gets a big buff. Even if the first tier talents are utter crap, Icy Talons and Black Ice should make up for them. GoD at first look seems to gain an indirect nerf - PS+IT will be doing slightly more damage than what it does now. It'll catch up a bit when compared to what SS does. However, this'll probably be offset completely by the higher ticking diseases through Black Ice. Depends on your playstyle, disease twisting or not, GoD is still one or two extra disease ticks per 20s (and 1 GCD).

I haven't yet checked if what dr_AllCOM3 said is true on the PTR. If the diseases do actually get completely refreshed through GoD, it'll lose some of its value. It's entirely possible that it'll also prevent rolling ToTT etc too.

Bryntrolls will, by all logic, go up in value a bit too. +20% haste and Black Ice should make the proc roughly 30% better - not enough to catch Cryptmaker and whatnot, but the heroic version will gain enough to distinguish itself from Shadow's Edge and be a real upgrade. Now if only the speed of the weapon would change to slower.. 8[

[Sixthgear]

Thanks for the input.

[hanzhE]

Too many blue gems (3), too much hitrating. Bryntroll has been nerfed several times, so unless you have access to hardmode loot, Shadow's edge would be the best for you.

You might want to take a look at your gems aswell. Hint: helm, weapon, belt.

If you get a "about 2s break all is on CD" you're probably doing a scourge strike when you should have re-applied diseases.

[dr_AllCOM3]

I haven't yet checked if what dr_AllCOM3 said is true on the PTR. If the diseases do actually get completely refreshed through GoD, it'll lose some of its value. It's entirely possible that it'll also prevent rolling ToTT etc too.

Nah, nothing has really changed. I tested it on the PTR.

Heroic Bryntroll is better than Shadow's Edge. You can easily see that on WoL/Wmo.

The LK is the only heroic boss left and I don't think Unholy (i.e. Ebon Plague) is mandatory there. You don't attack the ghouls and you can't hit the spirits very well.
I'll probably go Blood in four weeks when I get my Shadowmourne, but I guess it won't matter then with the 10% buff...

Frost could be nice, but we don't know that for sure until the patch goes live.

[Aldorian]

On engineering as DPS

And mainly just since someone asked me in an intelligent manner in-game instead of the usual drivel I get, here's why engineering rocks:
[...]
the rocket boots
[...]

Hi Synti

I was wondering myself to go for Engineering for the rocket boots. But then I looked your armory and saw you do not have them yourself, but a +24CC enchant instead. Given the emphasis you put on the boots, it is surprising. Is there new elements making them not so good now then ?

Second question I have, if I were to move from BS to Eng, will I be able to equip my gloves and swrists any more (while the additional sockets/gems being inactive), or would I not be able to equip then anymore ?

Best Regards
Aldorian

[zYN]

But then I looked your armory and saw you do not have them yourself, but a +24CC enchant instead. Given the emphasis you put on the boots, it is surprising.

But I do have rocket boots. The side-effect of having them on is that they also give +24 crit rating, which is what shows up in the armory.

And yes, you can equip the gloves and wrists - the sockets just go inactive and read "Requires Blacksmithing (x)."

The LK is the only heroic boss left and I don't think Unholy (i.e. Ebon Plague) is mandatory there. You don't attack the ghouls and you can't hit the spirits very well.

Yeah. I was thinking of going Blood as well for a moment, for better cooldowns in certain situations in the encounter. Plus bunch of cleave on the raging spirits and self-heals for Infest/Pain and Suffering and whatnot. It's pretty good on paper.

What happens though is that most of the time we're just two DKs on Lich King. Ebon Plague is extremely nice to have on Val'kyrs instantly. Chances with only one UH in the raid ending up riding the Val'kyr are a bit too high. DnD also does very, very good damage to them. Bone Shield is just amazing throughout the whole encounter.

There's definitely a case to be made for both specs, but I'd say the overall survivability of UH is better on LK HC. Other than just the raid being better off with a couple of UH death knights, I'd still probably go with UH just because of Bone Shield. It's, once again, a complete lifesaver in the "new phase."


About Frost spec:
I was actually expecting a nerf to it for quite a long time. From all I've tested and also from a bunch I've read, everything points out to it outperforming Blood and UH. Also not to forget - Frost has an "execute" talent which is extremely good in a few fights.

If it stays as it is when going live and actually is just as good as it seems, count me in. 8]

[Aldorian]

But I do have rocket boots. The side-effect of having them on is that they also give +24 crit rating, which is what shows up in the armory.

And yes, you can equip the gloves and wrists - the sockets just go inactive and read "Requires Blacksmithing (x)."

Thanks, I was wondering where this +24cc enchant could come from.

Still i'm wondering if it's worth to drop BS for Eng, as I do not see a lot of people with Eng in PVE, and particularly among Paragon's DK. You are the only one with Eng though (except if i missed something).

[Xokati]

After reading last few posts i got one question in my mind - should i expect that soon frost/blood will be better than unholy?
If yes then what spec You suggest? Blood or frost?

[zYN]

Still i'm wondering if it's worth to drop BS for Eng, as I do not see a lot of people with Eng in PVE, and particularly among Paragon's DK. You are the only one with Eng though (except if i missed something).

That's because they're shit lazy and/or just don't care much. It most certainly is worth it if you can be bothered with saronite bombs and learn how (and when) to use rocket boots efficiently.

If you're asking me, then hell yes, it's worth it. For comparison, I'd also re-roll any of the lesser professions - alchemy, inscription, enchanting and such. If you'd ask if it's worth it going from BS to JC, I'd say it's not worth the effort, trouble and least of all the gold.

After reading last few posts i got one question in my mind - should i expect that soon frost/blood will be better than unholy?
If yes then what spec You suggest? Blood or frost?

Whichever gives you more DPS and whichever you got gear for. Most likely it'll be blood prior to the patch, most likely it'll be frost post-patch.

[Epinephrine]

This is an issue that's been bugging me alot lately,
so how do you think i should use Blood Tap as Unholy for maximum DPS gain? it just messes my rotation most of the times, but i guess im doin something wrong.

EDIT : 11/3/2010 BUMP!