Why so much hate against non-Atonement specs?

[artiq]

From what I read on this forum, you, Jhazrun, clearly state that Atonement is the only good disc spec etc. and that it isn't negotiable to not have it. Would you care to elaborate why you feel Atonement is so strong and while a spec wihtout it is so weak? Can't a disci priest make good use of SoS instead? I know many 10 man healers are assigned on the tanks so SoS is pretty strong there. Just curious because in other threads you haven't really explained why Atonement is mandatory.

[nyn]

idk if u read mmo champ forums priest , they hate atonement specs lol they say is no reliable etc

[mrtroll]

Mmo-champ people are complete and utter failures. They seriously know nothing and by you claiming that they say its unreliable you can easily see that im right.
How can the spec but unreliable when the proc chance of evanlism is 100% and the archangel never miss on your own body (HAHA) they only thing that would be unreliable would be if the melee is taking dmg aswell as the tank but otherwise its a fine spec... for nef etc atonement is good since melees will mostly take dmg during electrocutes and its good on the platforms aswell to fast keep ur party up. The atonement simply is so much better since u get low mana cost fast heals which deals dmg and you get evangelism which lowers mana cost even more and aswell as u get 15% extra healing from archangel and like 5-6k mana... and as far as it goes for SoS i mean come on.. weakend soul doesnt last for more than like 16-17 secs? No boss is that hard that is has spike dmg twice or thrice within that limit and ur penance aswell as an inner focus + GH can keep up with that to good anyway.. Even in 10 mans i would say atonement is better than SoS because to be honest.. its useless and everyone knows it.

[Jhazrun]

Atonement is only ever regarded poorly out of fundamental misperception. Many hold on to the idea that the damage vehicle and the targeting system would actually be somehow relevant liabilities; The numbers all check, but semantics get in the way of judgment.
The same silly mindset is at work in the statements "My job is to absorb with shields." or "The 12.5% cap is stupid."

Atonement is just an effective, efficient, flexible, synergistic, visceral heal button. Nothing more to it, but there sure isn't a reason to refuse to use it.

PS: What's the purpose of SoS when a PW:S on a tank isn't even that good in the first place?

[artiq]

How do you feel about this spec for 10 man http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bfGorRsbcoMoMuMZb , Jhazrun? Seeing as discipline aren't using Greater Heal that much, wouldn't it be better with that extra haste instead of some extra free mana, especially in heroic modes?

EDIT: Nevermind, forgot that Train of Thought reduces Penance CD.

[artiq]

The same silly mindset is at work in the statements "My job is to absorb with shields." or "The 12.5% cap is stupid."

Care to elaborate on the 12.5% cap? I know Spiritus on mmo-champion made this quote

I really hate EJ for the proliferation of the "12.5%" lie. The only good thing is that I know I can immediately give my no vote to any app where "12.5% haste cap" isn't directly followed by "is the dumb."

[Jhazrun]

Care to elaborate on the 12.5% cap? I know Spiritus on mmo-champion made this quote

I really hate EJ for the proliferation of the "12.5%" lie. The only good thing is that I know I can immediately give my no vote to any app where "12.5% haste cap" isn't directly followed by "is the dumb."

What's there to elaborate? The optimization math plays out just fine, and the silly folk at MMO-C are just busy fuming over "cap" semantics.

[artiq]

Care to elaborate on the 12.5% cap? I know Spiritus on mmo-champion made this quote

I really hate EJ for the proliferation of the "12.5%" lie. The only good thing is that I know I can immediately give my no vote to any app where "12.5% haste cap" isn't directly followed by "is the dumb."

What's there to elaborate? The optimization math plays out just fine, and the silly folk at MMO-C are just busy fuming over "cap" semantics.

But seeing as the only thiing 12.5% exactly does is giving you an additional tick of Renew. How important is that? What optimization math are you talking about? The math that shows that haste has higher value than mastery up to 12.5%?

[Jhazrun]

If the default value of Haste is just slightly below that of Mastery, and the additional weight of the fifth tick pushes it above, then the total peaks at the periodic breakpoint, regardless of whether it happens to number "12.5%" or be called a "cap".

[aríadne]

PS: What's the purpose of SoS when a PW:S on a tank isn't even that good in the first place?

I have a question then, what is your thought about this being said:

I'm not debating the quoted spectre of Jhazrun. Just because a long time raid healer and HPS chaser cannot see the value in SoS for tanking healing, doesn't mean its not valuable, nor does it prove that Disc tank healing isn't highly competitive. In actuality, all it means is actively using SoS to reduce WS to place a faster PW:S on a tank can often result in a lower overall HPS choice, which is spot on for a raid healer's attitude, but shows a lack of consideration for how to properly tank heal. If he's so chaffed about my assessment of SoS and Disc tank healing, he can feel free to come here and put forward an argument.

You missed the point I made a page ago. They don't see the value because they, personally, have never, nor want to tank heal. Why? Because they view Disc as a raid healer. Not because of numbers, or design, but because they, personally, do not value a Disc tank healer. This is primarily due to high levels of gear + substantial external regen equating to game changing playstyles for the Cata paradigm. This doesn't make disc priests in top guilds "bad" or "wrong," it just means they are squeezing every ounce they can out of a design.

Jhazrun is an HPS chaser by definition of being a raid healer in a top level guild. I'd be chasing HPS too in his position. I have been in positions of chasing HPS. Again, that doesn't make it "bad" or "wrong." I clearly said that in my previous statement.

I would not expect guilds like Paragon to have a Disc priest tank heal. Why do that when you can pump them full of innervates for mass shielding and rely on others (mainly Paladins) to accomplish the tank healing task?

Other classes are not "better" intrinsically, they are "better" relatively.

Just wanted to know if this is true or if he is making false assumptions and why you regard disc as weaker tank healers than paladins/shamans/druids. As I know that you don't participate in mmo-champ threads I brought this discussion here. I hope you do not mind. I just find it interesting to see opinions from both side.

The whole thread can be found here if you want it in context: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/918 ... ing./page8