Current raids

[Arxroth]

I ran to this pretty insane problem when doing ICC raids
People who are far from place to brag with their success tend to want join only successful raids, which would mean no wipes, no mistakes and all the way smooth raid, also asking only experienced players to participate...

I find that weird and quite insane because many are like me, haven't don't much in ICC so their skill and gearing aren't that good... I find problem when ppl don't care or don't even know tactics, and raids wipe and after few wipes everyone leaves.

Still many consider icc10/25 as "super easy" raid, which it is not in my opinion.
it can be easy if you know it upside down, but if you're learning it is hard to beat.

What are your opinions about icecrown citadel raids ?

[ShaZ]

I see ICC as a great raid. The currently buff provided gives everyone (not only alts, but new players) with item level ~232 a chance of doing the content and gearing up much more easily and there are fights that "pushes" every class and that are really enjoyable. Doing some of the last wing bosses for the first time and killing the LK for the first time is something you're hardly going to forget.

Expect to wipe a lot in the beginning, it's part of the process and the game is designed to punish you for your mistakes and make you learn from that. That's why they use the word "guild progress" for WoW so frequently.

---

For people that started playing or came back to WoW after Icecrown Citadel was released, gearing up for 251+ and getting used to everything in ICC can be a somewhat hard task. If you don't have experienced friends that can also lend you a hand, hitting a spot in which you have good gear and experience will probably demand a lot of wipes in "public" raids and getting experienced in smaller guilds with people in the same situation. The public trade chat is your first friend.

Despite of that, if you're in a small/recent guild or in an "old"/better one, in order to start doing ICC SERIOUSLY you should always look for a guild in which if the leader is dedicated.

Usually he/she is going to make an effort to help players with information (links, video, up to date "messages of the day" in the guild, calendar notes, make logs, use voice communication etc) so everyone is going to improve fast and start doing ICC 10/25 in normal mode with fewer and fewer wipes.

Guild leaders and members should always request and help each others players to look for the best talent builds for the group, understanding and mastering their skills rotations, looking for the best gear (making TOC and ICC crafts to get ahead in performance, getting the best equips with triumphs/frosts, using the correct enchants, getting the correct professions to improve your performance) and always use the best food/flask/elixir available.

You shouldn't expect to enter a "perfect guild" and have everyone "carrying" you around ICC, letting you loot stuff without a good performance. Good guilds want good players who have already "suffered": reading, wiping and, through that, understanding the game ( also "having the achievements... presenting logs of your previous guild...") and some of the newer guilds are willing to "teach players how to play" and understanding that doing the hardmodes demand dedication.

Changing guilds along the time or helping your own guild improve is part of the process and, as I said, if you started playing after ICC was released, things are simply worse for you, because you're starting from zero, without previous experience, gear and experienced friends. But, well, everyone started from zero someday, and practise leads to success.

[Arxroth]

Yeah I agree with that entirely.
However problem on my realm is usually that "newbies" aren't wanted even they would be willing to learn fights etc.

Also addon GearScore divides opinions alot...
While it can measure gear on Character, it does mistakes with gemming and mixing the PVE and PVP gear with same score etc.
Personally I use GS to get quick insight of char's progress and and gearing, which gives good idea if char has raided much... and more the merrier there.

Also what I find fustrating is that players do give up too easily in pug raids is too common on my realm, and I really hate it because it just ruins promising starting runs.

[urimé]

opninion on the ICC raid:
Really my favourite instance, almost as good imo as vanilla naxx

Opinion on the way it has been downtuned:
I really found it sad that blizz invented the zonewide buff, yes I do think everyone has to get a chance to see the endgame-content. But wasn't it Blizzard that stated that more hardcore players would be rewarded for their efforts by getting better then endgame gear, by doing HCs ?
imo, they totally failed at that, PUGs Start to clear HC content and that was not rlly as intended now was it. And yes there are harder bosses wich pugs can't clear yet but still, now with the 30% buff ICC HC is a laugh except for LK.

[ShaZ]

Yeah I agree with that entirely.
However problem on my realm is usually that "newbies" aren't wanted even they would be willing to learn fights etc.

You shoul check wow progress: http://www.wowprogress.com/

Look for your specific realm and look for guilds with your desired progression. Also, check if they are still active by checking their last progresses and check the guild in wowarmory, also. After that you may want to contact the leaders/offices ingame or look for their website, if they have one.

It's not easy, but after you find a good guild you're gong to stick to it for a long time and have good partners to help you fastly gear your alts, of course.

Also what I find fustrating is that players do give up too easily in pug raids is too common on my realm, and I really hate it because it just ruins promising starting runs.

That's sad... mainly because if you have already defeated marrowgar, if the run is ruined, you'll be locked for the whole week.

Considering this, guild runs are much more reliable. Many players may be inexperienced and fail a lot, but they are not going to leave so easily.

And yes there are harder bosses wich pugs can't clear yet but still, now with the 30% buff ICC HC is a laugh except for LK.

Well, I don't think things are that easy, even with the buff. If you check wow progress you will see that the vast majority of guilds haven't cleared most of the content in 25men Hardmodes, and we're are about to receive a new expansion already.

The best players struggle for the limited space and "suffer" with the high requirements in the best guilds in each server and most people don't really have the chance and luck to do the hardmode end content of the game.

What I think I that blizzard should have made a achievement or give some kind of reward to people that completed ICC bosses without the buff. A title would be nice.