The LFR discussion

[Dyslexia]

this was not exploit not just of paragon of all ppl that did ...its Blizz fault .Period guys

[jokerfmj]

You exploited, you knew you were, you knew others were and you joined in. Everyone you did was wrong if others were exploiting you should have reported them and won the race fairly. Even if somehow you win the race now i wont see it as a valid win in my mind your a disgrace.

I am sure you guys have a second account each with a geared toon that didn't use the exploit that you will use though.

Or since your willing to do anything to get the edge i would not be shocked if you end up "buying" and account to play on until your mains are active again.

If you won fairly and reported others it would have been epic. Dont try and justify your actions by saying others did it. Thats just a cop out.

Your countless mis-uses of, "your," are overshadowed only by your naivety and apparent anger at Paragon and other top guilds.

[TheComedian]

[Removed]

[Fortok]

The "unintended behavior" they're referring to isn't their means of obtaining more gear. It was the fact that LFR was allowing them to do so, that "behavior" was unintended by Blizzard. Anyways, I'll take this apology at face value, as I've never seen you all be anything other than humble. Best of luck when the suspension ends, though!


Edit: Seems the person I was responding to had his post removed.

[TheComedian]

[Removed]

[Atalyx]

I am so glad TheComedian has had such good insight into this argument, his posts have really added to the debate.

[Grindle]

Look at Inner Sanctum in Tier 11. They decided to take a hard stance against using the exploits on Atramedes and Magmaw and did they get rewarded for it? No, they were ultimately punished because they were one of the few people to take that position and Blizzard did nothing.

But they are rewarded with higher respect, which is eventually what will matter when we talk about WoW after it has faded. This entire LFR-exploit will remain in people's minds - "WoW was a game of cheating, and people did it to remain at top. Some didn't and made it when justice caught up."

Was said previously - karma catches up. Does WF Anub'arak ring a bell?

Sorry, you made a choice, I can understand why you did, but it was wrong, and it didn't work this time. WoW as a whole is a lot weaker from this entire matter and I'm very displeased with all highly rated guilds that took part of it. Blood Legion didn't, and I think they are going to seize, rightfully so, this opportunity.

Of course Blizz double standards don't help. Paragon got away with Anub, Ensidia banned for LK.

[Wetfinger]

so are u guys from Paragon able to raid tomorrow or too many of u got banned so u have to wait untill next reset??

[Aurumai]

I honestly don't see there being any serious action taken against the people who have used the exploit. You don't have to be a genius to come to the conclusion that every single guild who has a shot at world firsts has set up personal LFR runs for their members, or has at least made use of similar exploits in the past. While some people may not want to believe it, the point of a race is to get to the goal first, and use any means necessary to speed up the process. We're reminded in almost every raiding season that exploits are an important opportunity for serious guilds; for the sake of progression, every serious guild has to do anything they can to make progression cleaner, quicker, and easier, even in the rarer cases where an "unfair" exploit is used.

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone. I'm not saying that it was developer's intent or fault that they've put all of the top guilds in such a sticky situation. That being said, I think that Paragon, Ensidia, Method, For the Horde, Blood Legion, and anyone who may have used the exploit, made the only choice that they could have. Blizzard has never had a reputation for enforcing their rules very strictly, and as such, it would have been a very bad idea for any seriousguild NOT to have used the exploit -- It's an entirely reasonable possibility that Blizzard won't do much about the people who used the exploit. If (And possibly when)that happens, the people who chose NOT to use it will be left behind. That is definitely not a risk that any of the top guilds are going to take.

If there really will be a ban, then Blizzard will be effectively putting the race on hold. Paragon isn't the only guild smart enough to use the resources at hand to improve their chances of seeing world first kills. I've never known Blizzard to be a company that puts much effort into keeping its community under control, and if they decide to smash anyone in Paragon with the banhammer, then they're probably going to have to do the same with several of the top guilds, if not most of them. I believe in fair competition, and I WOULD agree that this exploit was a dangerous one to use, but when there are other people fighting for your title of "World's best", and there's sufficient evidence to prove that they, too, are willing to do anything and everything to get it (referring to the exploit), then the only thing I can say is that Paragon and everyone else who may have used it did what they had to do.

[Glowyrm]

this was not exploit not just of paragon of all ppl that did ...its Blizz fault .Period guys

So if I sell you a gun and you shoot someone it's my fault? Don't think so.

I understand Paragon is in a unique position when it comes to raiding. Their only alternative was to call out every one else on exploiting and make it clear that they weren't doing it. It was that, or join in on it.

Scenario #1 means they MAY have lost the #1 spot but keep their honor and respect while scenario #2 means they definitely stay competitive but lose some respect.

Either way, it wasn't a great situation to be in, so they voted to stay competitive.

Although, didn't you guys know that Blizzard was going to crack down on it really soon anyway? Could have avoided the whole thing by just doing the right thing (you guys already made it clear that you knew it was wrong) and the guilds that did it would have lost everything and been back on an even level.

for the sake of progression, every serious guild has to do anything they can to make progression cleaner, quicker, and easier, even in the rarer cases where an "unfair" exploit is used.

There's a difference between exploits like this and using 100 druids to kill Nefarian.