Arcane VS Fire with T13 4-set

[Deptdint]

I'm wondering how fire is going to keep up with Arcane once mages get their 4 set. If my assumptions are correct, you can cast Arcane power every ~20 seconds. 15 of those while under the affects of it, so you have approximately 5 second windows without it. Fire will have combustion up every ~1:10 and with how RNG fire is, maybe longer. I only wonder with having Arcane Power up so often you won't be able to maintain the mana to sustain it and thus it can't be up as often.

I personally like fire and will enjoy playing it while I can but I don't see it competing with Arcane with the tier 13 4 set bonus.

[Russenallen]

I do believe that arcane power's normal cooldown is 1.5min, so 90 seconds.
With 10 stolen time stack at 3 sec reduction each, it would reduce the cd to 60 sec. Stacks refresh wont reduce the cooldown further.
I do believe the stacks only reduce the general cooldown when they are up (if your stacks wear off when using arcane power, your cooldown jumps back to 90secs.

That makes 25% uptime (15 secs each minute) in theory instead of the 75% uptime you suggested.

[Guromin]

Deptdint,

While it is difficult to be sure exactly how things will turn out, I do believe it is safe to say that both specs are usable in Dragon Soul. Anyone who want to play fire can do so without riticule. Anyone who wishes to play Arcane may also do so without being "wrong". There will be fights where one is stronger than another, but unless you are a player in a 'hard core' guild pressing for world firsts there will be some choice as to which spec one should play.

The beauty of 4.3 is not that Fire is better than Arcane, but that we are able to choose which we prefer to play (for the most part).


-Guromin

[Deptdint]

I do believe that arcane power's normal cooldown is 1.5min, so 90 seconds.
With 10 stolen time stack at 3 sec reduction each, it would reduce the cd to 60 sec. Stacks refresh wont reduce the cooldown further.
I do believe the stacks only reduce the general cooldown when they are up (if your stacks wear off when using arcane power, your cooldown jumps back to 90secs.

That makes 25% uptime (15 secs each minute) in theory instead of the 75% uptime you suggested.

I was going by what WoWHead & MMO-Champion had. If it is indeed 3 seconds, then you would be correct.

Deptdint,

I do believe there is an error in your calculation on the bonus of the set. In addition I think you also underestimate the power of Combustion for fire and the excessive amount of fights that require large amounts of AoE. I think anyone who has played fire on Heroic Halfus knows how well Combustion and AoE mix.

I am not sure exactly how Arcane will compare to Fire as we progress with gear in Dragon Soul because Arcane scales well with Intellect (far better than fire does), but I don't think that Arcane will ever really beat fire on the AoE fights in Dragon Soul.

To more specifically address the concern you have in relation to the Tier set bonus I would like to point out that Arcane does not benefit well with the additional 500 haste from the set bonus. I have played a sufficient amount on PTR and other Arcane mages (with the legendary staff) and similar gear were not even close to what I was capable of doing. Now I realize this is an observation and not a science, but I just want to assure you that Fire will most defiantly compete with arcane and most likely beat it on almost every single fight (Ultraxion might be the exception).

-Guromin

I do know how powerful combustion is and will be in 4.3. It's just the nature how fire does good AoE dmg that concerns me. Without a impact proc at the right moment, Fire AoE can suffer severely. I'll be playing fire out the door patch day and would prefer to continue with that through the end if the expansion. I know how well int works with Arcane and how the more you have the more valuable Mastery becomes which makes Arcane Power even more powerful. This is all of course assuming the 7 seconds is correct but I hope the 3 is because that will be more balanced.

[Deptdint]

Just a follow up, per Blue Post the 4 set does reduce the CD of Arcane Power by 7 seconds.

[Guromin]

You are correct. The last time I looked at it the CD reduction was much lower than it is now so my apologies on that. I still do not think that it will make arcane better than fire because Arcane Power is a huge mana drain. Having it active almost all the time would create for more interesting play, but it will also be a large mana drain.

-Guromin

[Deptdint]

No apologies needed, it was just simply old information. I think fire will still be top AoE but Arcane should be able to at least be competitive. I know with maintaining 4 stacks of Arcane Blast + Arcane Power; Arcane Explosion would generate some decent numbers. It's the single target fights that it will be close and only time will tell. I don't have anything against Arcane, it's just that it's such a boring spec at the moment. Fire always has something to keep you engaged and is why I've always enjoyed it. If nothing else, the 4 set should at least make Arcane the mana management spec it should be and thus should make it a little more fun to play.