Hi guys, I'm an arcane mage and for a while now I've been struggling with a problem regarding the AOE utility of arcane. I have spent 2 points in Improved Arcane Explosion since its an amazing spell that can pop up good numbers, however the downside is that you have to be within 10 yards of your target. This works great while soloing or in dungeons but when it comes to raids its a whole other story.
For example i was assigned to kill the slimes on Chogall heroic and I got a lot of corruption cause I had to be close to them and I got hit. Other example is Bethtilac when the spiderlings spawn I have to be on constant movement around them to slow and dps them down. While this is okay on normal mode I doubt I'll be able to do it in heroic mode. I'm the only mage in my raid group and I really want to help them and do what the RL tells me to do, but I feel that doing the AOE stuff is not really my forte as arcane.
From what I've seen on armory most arcane mages prefer to put the two points in Improved Blink instead. So my questions are: shall I do the same? Is arcane AOE a solid option during raids? Or shall I drop Incanter's Absorption so I can have both Improved Blink and Improved AE? Any input on this matter is greatly appreciated.
I also want to ask what's your opinion on the MageManaBar addon. I tried it out but I personally I didn't feel any improvement in my performance, but some people say its very good and that its a must have so I'm not sure whether to use it or not.
I'm new to the whole hardcore rading and progression stuff and I know all the basic stuff but any other advice you may have regarding of what should I focus on in FL will be invaluable for me . Here's my armory link in case you wish to make any observations regarding my gemming or reforging.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... las/simple
Thank you for your time.
Need some advice
Re: Need some advice
16 Aug 2011 21:15
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Reckert
- Posts: 16
Arcane and AoE is a matter of routine imo. The more you play the fight, the easier it is to predict when to move in and be ready for AoE.
For Cho'gall: Don't go adds as Arcane. Either go fire or make someone else go on adds, because it's just not working properly. You can stay on max 10 yards and keep moving, but you will only get 2-3 off, before you loose your AB stack.
For Beth: In our 25 man we assign people to each spiderling spawn place, so I know when / where to kill spiders. And this is where improved blink shines. For me it's mandatory, but it's up to each arcane mage, if he finds it needed or not. For me my arcane spec has 2 loose points. Either in "Arcane Vortex" (puts slow up on the target) and the improved Arcane Xplosion. The slow is really seldom needed, as for bosses the tank will always have slow up. The only place I have found it really good is for raggy to get a slow off on the adds imidieatly, but again, that depends on your raid comp / your playstyle.
So to sum up: Get improved blink, and abuse it! You don't have to move the second the adds spawn, you can blink before and be ready (just stay in range of the drone) and blink back whenever the adds are dead. DON'T WALK! Never walk, it's a major dmg loss!
Don't get rid of Incanters Absorbtion, it's brilliant.
About mage mana bar: It's brilliant whenever you get used it. At first it's very distracting, but whenever you have set it up and got used it, it actually becomes very handy. The brilliance is the "real mana" shown, and not the current %. So if you go with Volcano, which really fucks your mana, you can just focus on the addon to tell you, how much mana you actually have. It can be very handy, but it depends on your playstyle :)
Hope this helps,
Shizzy @ Darksorrow
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... y/advanced
For Cho'gall: Don't go adds as Arcane. Either go fire or make someone else go on adds, because it's just not working properly. You can stay on max 10 yards and keep moving, but you will only get 2-3 off, before you loose your AB stack.
For Beth: In our 25 man we assign people to each spiderling spawn place, so I know when / where to kill spiders. And this is where improved blink shines. For me it's mandatory, but it's up to each arcane mage, if he finds it needed or not. For me my arcane spec has 2 loose points. Either in "Arcane Vortex" (puts slow up on the target) and the improved Arcane Xplosion. The slow is really seldom needed, as for bosses the tank will always have slow up. The only place I have found it really good is for raggy to get a slow off on the adds imidieatly, but again, that depends on your raid comp / your playstyle.
So to sum up: Get improved blink, and abuse it! You don't have to move the second the adds spawn, you can blink before and be ready (just stay in range of the drone) and blink back whenever the adds are dead. DON'T WALK! Never walk, it's a major dmg loss!
Don't get rid of Incanters Absorbtion, it's brilliant.
About mage mana bar: It's brilliant whenever you get used it. At first it's very distracting, but whenever you have set it up and got used it, it actually becomes very handy. The brilliance is the "real mana" shown, and not the current %. So if you go with Volcano, which really fucks your mana, you can just focus on the addon to tell you, how much mana you actually have. It can be very handy, but it depends on your playstyle :)
Hope this helps,
Shizzy @ Darksorrow
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... y/advanced
Did everybody see that? Because I will NOT be doing it again! Cpt. Jack Sparrow
Re: Need some advice
16 Aug 2011 22:44
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Nekolas
- Posts: 11
Yes about the raid composition. Its 10 man and we have a hunter and a balance druid that also can do the aoe, but being a mage its like i'm assigned to aoe by default. And yes Incanter's Absorption's extra spell power bonus is awesome.
You say your spec has two loose points, namely the ones that go into Nether Vortex. While its true that I have seen some talent builds similar to yours I don't see it in Paragon nor in other top guilds mages. They all have the two points in Nether Vortex and I tend to agree. Ragnaros is not the only fight where the slow is usefull. Mages are usually assigned to kill adds, big or small, and Slow not only slows the target but also increases its attack and casting time making it a bit easier for the tank and also allows you to even kite some adds. The choice is between Improved Blink and Improved AE and most go for the first due to the increased mobility. In general that is better than aoe for arcane since, as you pointed out, walking means losing dps. But I also see some actually do have the two points in Improved AE.
I guess this is highly situational and also depends on the raid composition. In 25 man you probably have more mages and more classes that can do the aoe on their own. But in 10 man there is usually one mage per group and thus you gotta do all the dirty work you're asigned to do depending on whatever else classes you have. If there are no other good AOE classes then Improved AE i think its better even if the movement will lower your total dps. Since my group has both a hunter and boomkin I think I'll put the points in Improved Blink and focus only on single target duties.
As for the addon I agree that showing the real mana is great and all, but with practice and if you keep an eye on your procs then you can do fine on your own too. I tried it out, as i said, and I really didn't notice any improvement in my DPS. Not to mention I also found it very hard to find a good place for it on my UI despite the heavy customizations. However I like the idea behind it and I'll give one more chance during this weeks raids.
I thank you for your input Reckert but I would like to see more opinions on this.
You say your spec has two loose points, namely the ones that go into Nether Vortex. While its true that I have seen some talent builds similar to yours I don't see it in Paragon nor in other top guilds mages. They all have the two points in Nether Vortex and I tend to agree. Ragnaros is not the only fight where the slow is usefull. Mages are usually assigned to kill adds, big or small, and Slow not only slows the target but also increases its attack and casting time making it a bit easier for the tank and also allows you to even kite some adds. The choice is between Improved Blink and Improved AE and most go for the first due to the increased mobility. In general that is better than aoe for arcane since, as you pointed out, walking means losing dps. But I also see some actually do have the two points in Improved AE.
I guess this is highly situational and also depends on the raid composition. In 25 man you probably have more mages and more classes that can do the aoe on their own. But in 10 man there is usually one mage per group and thus you gotta do all the dirty work you're asigned to do depending on whatever else classes you have. If there are no other good AOE classes then Improved AE i think its better even if the movement will lower your total dps. Since my group has both a hunter and boomkin I think I'll put the points in Improved Blink and focus only on single target duties.
As for the addon I agree that showing the real mana is great and all, but with practice and if you keep an eye on your procs then you can do fine on your own too. I tried it out, as i said, and I really didn't notice any improvement in my DPS. Not to mention I also found it very hard to find a good place for it on my UI despite the heavy customizations. However I like the idea behind it and I'll give one more chance during this weeks raids.
I thank you for your input Reckert but I would like to see more opinions on this.
Re: Need some advice
17 Aug 2011 12:24
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Reckert
- Posts: 16
Hey,
I hate the sentence "I don't see anyone in Paragoin having it" because it means you are just blindly following it. You should always make your own experiences. And yes, the Nether vortex comes in handy when you have to do quick target switches, but in 9/10 there is a tank on, and if there is not, you just respec for that fight. But as I pointed out a couple of times: it's about personal preference imo, as there is no way to say "this gives more damage". I found improved blink speed bonus very very helpful, and Nether Vortex / Improved Arcane Xplosion are situational.
About the addon: It depends on playstyle as I mentioned, it doesn't automaticly increase your dps, but if you get used to it, it can make it easier to maintain a high dps, whilst following tactics.
I too, would love some more views on this topic :)
Shizzy @ Darksorrow
I hate the sentence "I don't see anyone in Paragoin having it" because it means you are just blindly following it. You should always make your own experiences. And yes, the Nether vortex comes in handy when you have to do quick target switches, but in 9/10 there is a tank on, and if there is not, you just respec for that fight. But as I pointed out a couple of times: it's about personal preference imo, as there is no way to say "this gives more damage". I found improved blink speed bonus very very helpful, and Nether Vortex / Improved Arcane Xplosion are situational.
About the addon: It depends on playstyle as I mentioned, it doesn't automaticly increase your dps, but if you get used to it, it can make it easier to maintain a high dps, whilst following tactics.
I too, would love some more views on this topic :)
Shizzy @ Darksorrow
Did everybody see that? Because I will NOT be doing it again! Cpt. Jack Sparrow
Re: Need some advice
17 Aug 2011 13:28
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Nekolas
- Posts: 11
I'm not saying that only in Paragon mages have that, they also have it in Method and others, its not like I'm referring to some random guild. This mages are supposed to be the best in EU so yes their build interests me very much. I don't follow it blindly but I use for guidance. Many arcane talents are situational and a matter of personal preference but i wanna choose the ones that perform best. This guys have a lot of FL experience and they know what works and what doesn't. It the same thing as asking what race its the best for mages, for example. The differences aren't that big and people should chose the one they like most, but as Guromin said in another post, if you wanna join Paragon then you gotta be Troll. Meaning if you wanna be the best you gotta go into the finer details and pick the best combination possible even if you like it or not. I myself was a Blood Elf until a few weeks ago, but I switched to Troll since its the best horde race for mages at the moment. I want to be the best and I try hard for it, so if a Paragon or Method mage comes to me and tells me to switch my build because it will improve my performance or simply because its better then I'd do it even if I like or not. This is of course hypothetical but I think you get the point.
I know that regarding arcane mages most things depend on each mage's style and preferences and that I should make my own but advice from people at the top is always welcomed. I don't wanna be just your ordinary average mage I wanna be the best I can be.
As for Nether Vortex, if the slow would only just slow the target then yes it wouldn't be that good, but in addition, as i said, it also reduces the casting and attack time of the target which means less damage taken by the tank on it which means less pressure on the heals as well. Of course that is minimal but in hard fights every little bit helps.
Regarding MageManaBar i kinda agree with you though I've seen lots of people on other forums bragging on how their dps went up after using it so I thought it actually increases your dps and I was quite surprised. Others said it makes arcane less challenging and boring since its too easy to track your mana now. It does take some getting used to it and I agree its awesome for beginners but I don't know how the professional players feel about it.
I know that regarding arcane mages most things depend on each mage's style and preferences and that I should make my own but advice from people at the top is always welcomed. I don't wanna be just your ordinary average mage I wanna be the best I can be.
As for Nether Vortex, if the slow would only just slow the target then yes it wouldn't be that good, but in addition, as i said, it also reduces the casting and attack time of the target which means less damage taken by the tank on it which means less pressure on the heals as well. Of course that is minimal but in hard fights every little bit helps.
Regarding MageManaBar i kinda agree with you though I've seen lots of people on other forums bragging on how their dps went up after using it so I thought it actually increases your dps and I was quite surprised. Others said it makes arcane less challenging and boring since its too easy to track your mana now. It does take some getting used to it and I agree its awesome for beginners but I don't know how the professional players feel about it.
Re: Need some advice
19 Aug 2011 06:42
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Guromin
- Posts: 190
Neckolas,
I realize much of your questions have been answered already, but I feel the desire to chime in. Appologies if I repeat something already said. I do try not to, but a lot has been said and there's a good possibility. I choose to put some time into posting on this forum because I really like what your talking about with the Paragon mages and not following them blindly. That's smart and I agree completley. I would not ever want someone to go to my armory and copy everything I have, because a lot of times I have done things for specific fights or mechanics. For example, my fire spec and glyphs look absolutely horrendous right now, but they serve the purpose of maximizing my damage for Heroic Alysrazor flight.
I want to be very clear about Nether Vortex and the two reasons you would want to spec into it. The 1st is because anything that is slowed or snared takes more damage from you. You must realize that there are a number of other classes including all tanking classes that can put up a debuff that works just as slow does. For this reason some mages will not spec into it for certain fights. On any fight that includes adds or targets that will not have a slow or snare this talent isn't really optional. A direct increase to damage is a must. The second reason is a little shadier and needs further testing, but I have found it to be true. When you are specced into Nether Vortex and cast Arcane Blast on a target wow treats the 'slow' effect applied as if you had cast a second spell. This is only important because all spells we have can proc arcane missiles. Having a higher proc rate on missiles will eliminate some uses of Arcane Barrage which results in a dps increase. A slight dps increase, but an increase nonetheless. Be aware of both of these when choosing your spec for a fight.
The other thing I want to address brings me back to Paragon mages and their level of competition. These guys know and realize that mages have almost no ability to damage adds that aren't close to them while playing arcane. When they are working on progression fights like H Ragnaros they will substitute mages for other classes that can do the job better. Not only does this mean that their aoe is better than the average guilds, but it means they don't expect the mage to do a lot of aoe damage. On cho'gall a mages only option is Blizzard and it costs a lot of mana. You also can't move it so it can end up being a loss unless you need the damage. You can not stand in puddles on Cho'gall (unless that's the plan) so be ready to use Blizzard.
Beth'tilac is a little different, because there aren't a lot of targets or a large gaping pool underneath you that will kill you. In our raid the top damage on Spinners was a mage. That mage used Arcane Explosion a total of 0 times. He simply single target them down and it worked. Not only did it benefit our strategy because he pulled them off Druids who were using Star Fall, but it was also effective damage. Arcane Explosion is best used when you can get and keep up 4 stacks of Arcane Blast or when the adds have low health like on Occu'thar. I can't tell you on every fight what you should use, but hopefully this will help you to make the better call.
Lastly I want to leave you with a few works of advice. If you are ever wondering what spells you should cast or what other mages are doing use www.WorldOfLogs.com to see exactly what other mages are doing and doing well. This site will show you the highest ranked players in dps for each fight and as you get more familiar with the website you will be able to tell what made them so successful.
Best of luck with your progression,
-Guromin
I realize much of your questions have been answered already, but I feel the desire to chime in. Appologies if I repeat something already said. I do try not to, but a lot has been said and there's a good possibility. I choose to put some time into posting on this forum because I really like what your talking about with the Paragon mages and not following them blindly. That's smart and I agree completley. I would not ever want someone to go to my armory and copy everything I have, because a lot of times I have done things for specific fights or mechanics. For example, my fire spec and glyphs look absolutely horrendous right now, but they serve the purpose of maximizing my damage for Heroic Alysrazor flight.
I want to be very clear about Nether Vortex and the two reasons you would want to spec into it. The 1st is because anything that is slowed or snared takes more damage from you. You must realize that there are a number of other classes including all tanking classes that can put up a debuff that works just as slow does. For this reason some mages will not spec into it for certain fights. On any fight that includes adds or targets that will not have a slow or snare this talent isn't really optional. A direct increase to damage is a must. The second reason is a little shadier and needs further testing, but I have found it to be true. When you are specced into Nether Vortex and cast Arcane Blast on a target wow treats the 'slow' effect applied as if you had cast a second spell. This is only important because all spells we have can proc arcane missiles. Having a higher proc rate on missiles will eliminate some uses of Arcane Barrage which results in a dps increase. A slight dps increase, but an increase nonetheless. Be aware of both of these when choosing your spec for a fight.
The other thing I want to address brings me back to Paragon mages and their level of competition. These guys know and realize that mages have almost no ability to damage adds that aren't close to them while playing arcane. When they are working on progression fights like H Ragnaros they will substitute mages for other classes that can do the job better. Not only does this mean that their aoe is better than the average guilds, but it means they don't expect the mage to do a lot of aoe damage. On cho'gall a mages only option is Blizzard and it costs a lot of mana. You also can't move it so it can end up being a loss unless you need the damage. You can not stand in puddles on Cho'gall (unless that's the plan) so be ready to use Blizzard.
Beth'tilac is a little different, because there aren't a lot of targets or a large gaping pool underneath you that will kill you. In our raid the top damage on Spinners was a mage. That mage used Arcane Explosion a total of 0 times. He simply single target them down and it worked. Not only did it benefit our strategy because he pulled them off Druids who were using Star Fall, but it was also effective damage. Arcane Explosion is best used when you can get and keep up 4 stacks of Arcane Blast or when the adds have low health like on Occu'thar. I can't tell you on every fight what you should use, but hopefully this will help you to make the better call.
Lastly I want to leave you with a few works of advice. If you are ever wondering what spells you should cast or what other mages are doing use www.WorldOfLogs.com to see exactly what other mages are doing and doing well. This site will show you the highest ranked players in dps for each fight and as you get more familiar with the website you will be able to tell what made them so successful.
Best of luck with your progression,
-Guromin
6 posts -