Just a few DEMO questions for you locks here at Paragon!

[Swâpz]

Hey guys few quick questions regarding demo playing style in 4.3. Spec: what are your guy's out look on the whole Incen filler vs SB now? ( i get the whole idea just don't know if i like it yet, i'm sure there is info already on ur forums about it if so sorry.) Another would be, i know you pull with felgaurd and S-Burn your pup out after felstorm, but do you re-summon your felguard for the other meta's? or are you using the pups demon soul?

Also are you Waiting for Demon Soul to pop meta again. Ive tried both ways cant seem to figure it out for myself. Back with moonwell it was an easy choice lol but not so much now for me. I love the felgaurd's demon soul!

Any info on this would be nice as im setting up my specs for Hms Tuesday and need to get it done. I come here a lot just don't ever need to bug you guys for info until now. EJ seems to have info on it but nothing on this subject just yet, that i could find :(

All in all guys Good Luck on the Race i am cheering for you guys! Locks cant wait to see some videos of you guys playing, i enjoy learning from all of you ..

Thank You,
Swâpz @ Kil Jaeden U.S.

[Opustjej]

I´m also getting ready for the hard modes and for the first time I´m really in the dark when it comes to theorycrafting.

The big question is when we replace the Moonwell Chalice and stop pet twisting. I was lucky enough to get the trinket from Spine this week. I´ve been simcrafting myself with both the Chalice and the VPLC and Chalice came out on top as second trinket. Maybe when we get Cunning of the Cruel its time to drop pet twisting. Maybe we have to wait until we have 4-set and Cunning of the Cruel before it outperforms the Chalice?

After giving it some thought I´ve ended up with using 2-set T13 and 2-set T12, pass rest of the tokens to better needing classes since I think that guild progress will benefit most from this. Upgrading to 4-set T13 is just a tiny tiny upgrade (if you look away from the fact that T13 gear obv is better than T12, but then again, I still believe other classes benefit more from their upgrades).

Then there is the matter of what different fights require. Your guild will probably benefit more of a strong Meta with Demonsoul:Felguard and Chalice. Even though your overall dps might drop with a couple of hundred dps I think beeing able to do a ton more dps in burnphases and AoE-phases actually is better for the end result. Your final dps is not all that matters, most fights have a phase that make or break the fight and I rather perfom very well on those. But then there is Ultraxion..... No burn phase, no gimmick, just a good ole dps race where we want to maximize our dps.
´
My conclusion is that there is no final answer to whats best for demo. You simply have to look into what the fight require and specc and gear for that. Also,the length of the fights will have a huge impact on your performance. If the fight end after 4,6,8 etc minutes or very close to those number, dropping pet twisting will be better since that will most likely give you one more meta (unless the RNG gods are against you). My guess is that dropping pet twisting on Ultraxion will be a clear winner since that opens up for a fourth Meta.

The key to solid Demoplay is knowing your fight and my playstyle will most likely vary from fight to fight. It´s frustrating not having a "final answer" to whats best but it´s also very fun and it gives us a challange many classes dont have in this dumbed down game =)

But I would also love to hear the thoughts of Paragons locks thoughts regarding Demonsoul, Chalice and pet twisting. But then, the race is on and I doubt they will give up their secrets and thoughts about every encounter which is understandable. But some thoughts and advice would be highly appreciated!

[Swâpz]

I´m also getting ready for the hard modes and for the first time I´m really in the dark when it comes to theorycrafting.

The big question is when we replace the Moonwell Chalice and stop pet twisting. I was lucky enough to get the trinket from Spine this week. I´ve been simcrafting myself with both the Chalice and the VPLC and Chalice came out on top as second trinket. Maybe when we get Cunning of the Cruel its time to drop pet twisting. Maybe we have to wait until we have 4-set and Cunning of the Cruel before it outperforms the Chalice?

After giving it some thought I´ve ended up with using 2-set T13 and 2-set T12, pass rest of the tokens to better needing classes since I think that guild progress will benefit most from this. Upgrading to 4-set T13 is just a tiny tiny upgrade (if you look away from the fact that T13 gear obv is better than T12, but then again, I still believe other classes benefit more from their upgrades).

Then there is the matter of what different fights require. Your guild will probably benefit more of a strong Meta with Demonsoul:Felguard and Chalice. Even though your overall dps might drop with a couple of hundred dps I think beeing able to do a ton more dps in burnphases and AoE-phases actually is better for the end result. Your final dps is not all that matters, most fights have a phase that make or break the fight and I rather perfom very well on those. But then there is Ultraxion..... No burn phase, no gimmick, just a good ole dps race where we want to maximize our dps.
´
My conclusion is that there is no final answer to whats best for demo. You simply have to look into what the fight require and specc and gear for that. Also,the length of the fights will have a huge impact on your performance. If the fight end after 4,6,8 etc minutes or very close to those number, dropping pet twisting will be better since that will most likely give you one more meta (unless the RNG gods are against you). My guess is that dropping pet twisting on Ultraxion will be a clear winner since that opens up for a fourth Meta.

The key to solid Demoplay is knowing your fight and my playstyle will most likely vary from fight to fight. It´s frustrating not having a "final answer" to whats best but it´s also very fun and it gives us a challange many classes dont have in this dumbed down game =)

But I would also love to hear the thoughts of Paragons locks thoughts regarding Demonsoul, Chalice and pet twisting. But then, the race is on and I doubt they will give up their secrets and thoughts about every encounter which is understandable. But some thoughts and advice would be highly appreciated!

Thanks for the info and thoughts. Much appreciated! Good luck in your HM's ...

[Jubeto]

Moonwell chalice is still incredibly strong for stacking cooldowns for burn phases and such, you might find good use for it in many encounters in dragon soul. Petswapping for demon soul (edit:talking about chaliceless play) _GENERALLY_ isn't worth it. The few conditions I'm usually doing it is if there is some downtime like on some transition phases or adds incoming which needs to be AoE'd.

Incinerate filler is definitely a dps gain on Ultraxion, and with increased dps value on corruption it might be better for multidotting aswell. I haven't personally done or seen any theorycrafting about it, I suppose I'll have quite a bit of time with my 7 days of ban LOL! Incinerate filler definitely is easier to play with and if You decide to go without MWC You'll almost completely remove all need for petswapping. Cataclysm demo is currently at its simplest state :(.

Personally I'm still using MWC on Ultraxion even though simulationcraft results state that using 2 dragon soul trinkets would be ~300 dps gain. I'm haven't bothered to learn how to make my own action lines for simulationcraft, but the sims won't use another meta untill the next Demon soul is ready, Which is a problem with incinerate filler when you get heroism, especially if you have power infusions on top of that. You can have 1 free meta during those first 2 minutes without any penalty. But once you get 4 piece of t13 using chalice loses a lot of its value compared to chaliceless play. I managed to do 41.5k dps on this week's Ultraxion normal kill, I don't have any data to compare it with but I find the result quite positive even though my impending doom proc amount was less than average during those first 2 minutes.

[Swâpz]

Yeah im Sorry to hear about the ban on you guys. As im sure it wont hurt you guys to much haha. Get another week to get ready i guess :) . Anyhow thanks for your input as it has eased my mind a lot ..Good Luck Paragon!

P.s Jubeto : Thanks for taking the time to reply, didn't expect you take the time to actually post it :)

[Opustjej]

RL had work this week so we first got to Ultraxion hc today. I was not really sure how to approach him gearwise but after reading Jubetos post I decided to go with the MWC after all. My strategy varied alot from try to try, depending on how many impending doom proccs I got. We popped BL at start so when the RNG gods was with me I went for a meta without MWC and then stacked MWC with the third meta. If I didnt get many proccs I lined up the second meta with MWC (decided to stack if MWC was of CD not later than 15 sec after meta was of CD) and I used my second pot for the meta where I had MWC of CD.

This seemed to work extremely well for me, my gear is not that good, still having way to much 378 gear and gear without mastery. I ended up reforging so I had 2k haste for that extra Corruption tick (not really sure if thats best at my current gear level). I did not swap pet after the initial Meta, again not sure if thats optimal but I went with my gutfeeling.

Just like Jubeto I dont know how to make my own lines in Simcraft so I am not really sure this was optimal by any means but my results was really positive aswell with the MWC. I didnt have a single try below 40k (although many tries ended early and cant really be counted as valid) and the actual kill ended up with 42k which seems to be top of the line atleast when looking at worldoflogs. Dont think it was "good" RNG either, our best attempt before the kill, a 10% attempt had me at 44k with meta just coming of cd.

Anyways after doing the first 5 bosses my conclusion is that I will stick to MWC until I have 4-set and both my BiS trinkets.

Gunship seems to be a real anti demofight though. We only had 3 or 4 atempts on him with the best almost making it into final phase so I didnt really have the chance to evaluate much but it sure as hell felt like I was the weak part in the group (doing 10s). Its really limited how much time you can be in melee range and its loads of movement all the time. I really dont see how to pull some reasonable numbers as demo on that fight. Since he has been killed by alot of guilds maybe Jubeto is willing to give some inputs on this fight?

[Jubeto]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/aivt ... 018&e=3383

43954 Dps without chalice, Its worth noting that I had shadowbolt spec aswell which is a slight dps loss. unfortunately it was an enrage wipe, with boss having less than 300k hp left so I didn't make it to #1 this week as the following try was quite badly executed from my part, having hard time keeping focus up with major sleep deprivation. I don't have time to reply to the posts untill we're having a christmas break on 23-25th. I'll probably add some thoughts regarding chalice with/without FG swapping vs DS trinkets.

[mannaroth]

Lol, how the fuck do you do 40k dps on Hagara hc XD

When you get a chance, could you post your thoughts on an optimal opener when using Will of Unbinding? Would you just recast BoD at 10 stacks?

[Opustjej]

You dont want to reaply BoD. Reason is that you will most likely override an application cast with prepot and Power Torrent procc. Opener is abit flexible especially if you are tailor. Cast BoD when both Power Torrent and possible tailorenchant has procced but make sure its before your prepot expires.

Seems like jubeto is pulling some hax numbers on ultraxion :-) What trinkets did you use?