Paladin discussion

[Mendokse]

Hello Paragon

Im playing a ret pala, so i have a few questions for iiris:

i was wondering if u have any macros for supporting the raid, like hosac, cleanse etc? or do u use any other macros that makes things a little easier or for compressing all the buttons on the bars? :)

also, i'll might be getting my hands on a TAiJ soon and was wondering if u have any tips wether to switch it with HWT or WFS? and what fights would i benefit from using WFS/TAiJ or HWT/TAiJ?

also Good job on being an awsome guild :D

[Iiris]

Hello Paragon

Im playing a ret pala, so i have a few questions for iiris:

i was wondering if u have any macros for supporting the raid, like hosac, cleanse etc? or do u use any other macros that makes things a little easier or for compressing all the buttons on the bars? :)

also, i'll might be getting my hands on a TAiJ soon and was wondering if u have any tips wether to switch it with HWT or WFS? and what fights would i benefit from using WFS/TAiJ or HWT/TAiJ?

also Good job on being an awsome guild :D

I have mouseover Cleanse macro which is very useful with Grid and targettarget LoH macro for saving the tank :). On top of these I have some fight specific macros like canceling fortitude and commanding shout at anub and so on which you can put on your bars if needed.

Rawr says WFS is better than HWT even in stationary tank and spank so go TAiaJ+WFS.

[Sinfinity]

Hey, was wondering at what point i should stop getting Agi items even tho they may be upgrades? Here's my armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Sinfinity

The way i see it right now, is I need to replace my Back with Winding Sheet, or Shadowvault Slayers Cloak. And to make up for the Expertise from the Back i should get Skeleton Lord's Circle, or Seal of Many Mouths. Both options from both slots have a Str option and an Agi counterpart. If say, I were to get only the Agi ones to drop, should I get both, or would i be hurting myself by stacking too much Crit, and not enough AP? I know with Bloodfall, I lose quite a bit of Str/AP as it is, and am just not sure what would be better.

I also know that it would put me under Hit cap replacing my Ring of Rotting Sinew, but thats what TAJ is for if it ever would drop. Which also has me wondering about trinkets. I have DBW and HWT right now, and I also have WFS in the bank. When I got WFS i replaced my DBW with it and noticed substantially less DPS the rest of the raid, and then I tested every combination of the 3 trinkets I have on the dummy and my current combination always came out on top, no matter what proc DBW came out with, over a 4 minute span. So I'm wondering if you guys notice anything similar to this, seeings how Rawr is tellin me WFS is wayy better than DBW, and Rawr says TAJ is useless basically, yet BiS is TAJ, and just on my own tests I found DBW to be superior to anything else I have available to me.

[Iiris]

Hey, was wondering at what point i should stop getting Agi items even tho they may be upgrades? Here's my armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Sinfinity

The way i see it right now, is I need to replace my Back with Winding Sheet, or Shadowvault Slayers Cloak. And to make up for the Expertise from the Back i should get Skeleton Lord's Circle, or Seal of Many Mouths. Both options from both slots have a Str option and an Agi counterpart. If say, I were to get only the Agi ones to drop, should I get both, or would i be hurting myself by stacking too much Crit, and not enough AP? I know with Bloodfall, I lose quite a bit of Str/AP as it is, and am just not sure what would be better.

I also know that it would put me under Hit cap replacing my Ring of Rotting Sinew, but thats what TAJ is for if it ever would drop. Which also has me wondering about trinkets. I have DBW and HWT right now, and I also have WFS in the bank. When I got WFS i replaced my DBW with it and noticed substantially less DPS the rest of the raid, and then I tested every combination of the 3 trinkets I have on the dummy and my current combination always came out on top, no matter what proc DBW came out with, over a 4 minute span. So I'm wondering if you guys notice anything similar to this, seeings how Rawr is tellin me WFS is wayy better than DBW, and Rawr says TAJ is useless basically, yet BiS is TAJ, and just on my own tests I found DBW to be superior to anything else I have available to me.

Losing AP isnt important if the other stats you gain from agi items give more dps than the lost AP. I dont know why people think having some fixed amount of AP is a must, well it isnt, forget it. All you need to do is check which item gives more dps and go with that, it doesnt matter if its agi item or str item the one that gives more dps is obviously better, dont stress about losing AP. The only reason why I dont pick agi items anymore if someone needs them is because in 4.0 they will become useless to retridins and the first bosses in Cataclysm will probably be killed with the gear we have now so giving all possible upgrades to guys who dont replace them instantly when the 4.0 hits is much wiser. However, if you are still progressing in ICC you might think different.

So small empiric tests or dummy tests dont mean anything. Dummy test is totally irrelevant because you dont have full raid conditions there, many trinkets(TAiaJ for example) and skills scale differently with the buffs and debuffs that the testing environment is totally unrealistic. And for empiric test what you did while raiding you would need much more data for it to show real results probably hunderds of runs. I would just go with the spreadsheet/Rawr results and stick with that. And the reason why Rawr shows TAiaJ as bad trinket is because you have to add the trinket mechanic there yourself.

Here is a straight copy from Elitist Jerks Retribution BiS thread how to model it:

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t84213-retribution_bis_lists_3_3_a/

How to model Tiny Abomination in a Jar
(TAJ), click Edit then go to Special Effects then match these values:
Trigger: Physical Hit
Duration: 0
Cooldown: 0
Chance: 100% (In reality it is 50% but I had to increase it to account for Rawr not knowing about special melee hits)
Stacks: 8 (The heroic version requires 7 stacks)
Listed under the Equipment effects category: % Weapon Swing 0.5

Note: Keep in mind this is an approximation and not accurate. This is due to limitations with Rawr, the actual value is likely highe than what Rawr shows.

[Xaladinlol]

@Diamondtear/Ilonie
Which trinket setup is better overall. I don't have meteorite crystal :(

Double Solace(245/258)
Or
Talisman/heroic Solace

Thank you! :)

[Sinfinity]

Thanks again Iiris, I'm gonna pull WFS out for the run tonight and see how it treats me.

[iir]

A quesion for ilonie and diamondtear.

I've gotten fairly lucky with some heroic drops putting me at about 970 haste at the
I am probably not going to manage to keep it at that amount, but since I have yet to try either sindra or professor on heroic, i am wondering if from experience, is there a fight I might miss the haste at, and should I keep a few items for a high haste set when progressing on those fights? From my playstyle im comfortable at 850, but I am not entirely sure if there will be a fight where having more haste might help :)

[Zelpha]

A question to the readins.

what trinket should i use.

I have
whispering fanged skull
Tiny abom
herkumi war token,

is there situations that i should rotate around?

[Tunapants]

Well, the more times you need to switch target the better haste becomes. On fights like Sindra and Prof P, I believe haste becomes equivalent to crit, if not better. But depending on you hit rating, you would want to use Tiny Abom and idk if you have the H WFS. The H WFS i'd say is better then herkumi war token, but herkumi war token is better then normal WFS.

[retropala]

hi i would need some help on my retribution paladin's sockets and gears. i dont understand why some paladins put agility sockets and some leather gear coz of agility what does it help on paladin ? and i would be very thankfull if you guys can help on something else if i have done wrong on my gear :p thank you ! here is armory link of my gear http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Retropala =)