Note *This does not mean full PVP gear. Just two pieces of the best PVP gear you can get that give you the 2 set bonus. Gloves are mandatory for their 5% CS damage bonus they give alone! (mine are Ruthless Shoulders/Gloves) I wear a 2 set of T11 Chest/Legs with the Engineer Shades (added stat switching, and I haven't gotten a better one yet until more Firelands gear). Further studies will be done as soon as I get Ragnaros down for a 2set and 4set of T12.*
I have been a massive fan of Ret from the start. Something in it made me pick paladin over all other classes. Through time on playing a paladin I've learned a bit of lore and seen that we are a cocky bunch. As such I always felt the paladin should be a fast paced, in-and-out, kick the crap out of you then move on, kinda of class. In previous patches it had been very minimal. In WOTLK it was decent, but not enough to make me switch from the OP godliness that was Holy. As soon as Cataclysm hit I switched back to ret to master this new mystery that was Holy Power. Many many of my ret friend gave up and played tank or holy, most switched classes all together. But I still kept digging and digging. Through my digging I have come to this conclusion.....WTF?!
I say this because I have been going through Cata wearing nothing but PVP gloves and shoulders which give the nice 70 str set bonus. Also the gloves alone have a 5% extra dmg to Crusader Strike. People did not believe it until they saw it, but with even a two set of chest and pants for the 10% to verdict I was decked out in 346 gear swinging on bosses in heroics for 20k dps and huge leads of raw damage.
My problem is I have gotten my 4 tier T11 set. Ive gotten all five pieces even. When equipping the Shoulders, Head, Chest, and Pants of the T11 set I gain the nice Inq buff and the 10% to verdict. And am still able to wear the pvp gloves for the 5% bonus or some others. BUT if I put on the shoulders for the +70 str buff combined with the gloves adding about 230 total str with the upgrade that the current Conquest pvp gives over the tier str it just works...I don't even have nearly the amount of upgrades suggested on my list when equiping the pvp items as I do equipping the tier.
RAW damage....that's all I pull with the 2 set pvp and 2 set pve. On groups of adds alone with AW/Zeal going and enough in DS range I can easily hit 30k and have seen 50k+ at times.
Now....my other thought is about the tier though..... I am thinking that wearing this pvp/pve 2 set is an insane burst damage set. I can keep a constant 21k dps on the boss and just rip the hell out of overall damage. I tried using the 4 set T11 using the 1HP + T11 4 set stat = uber Inq time and can keep a fair amount of DPS up, but the trade is that I'm just constant dps. At the end of most fights I'm pretty low on the charts. When needed for a HUGE push on adds or a boss mob the PVP/PVE gear delivers. I'm top dmg and top dps most of the time. The T11 4 set just sort of chugs along. It Crits once in a while but is honestly a lot harder to pull heavy DPS with. I am just trying to figure out if I may have stumbled upon something that others really need to try out for themselves. I know. I know. Resil is just wasting space on other stats....but +230 str sure is not. If I were to get the 1 min CD trinks instead of my 2 minute Tol Barad trinket which I use with AW/Zeal rush I would be in heaven on DPS. Mixed with engineering gloves going while the trinket is on CD and you can call it a day.
I really want to hear others thoughts on this. Ive been experimenting with Ret non stop and I suggest everyone of you test this out before flaming this post...But it works. I swear it. I still get into raids and hear people grumble and question me on the decisions. But when it comes time to put up or shut up....They might as well have sewn their mouth shut at the beginning of the raid. I have people in my own guild who doubt me. I have a mage and DK friend who love to keep trying to out DPS me.
Don't give up on Retribution. It is a feisty spec but a verrrry rewarding one if you just experiment.
I know.But it works. I swear it. Ret PVE w/ PVP gear
I know.But it works. I swear it. Ret PVE w/ PVP gear
29 Jul 2011 06:21
Re: I know.But it works. I swear it. Ret PVE w/ PVP gear
29 Jul 2011 14:34
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DiamondTear
- Posts: 317
Experimentation doesn't generally work because of the large variation in DPS between pulls even with the same gear.
Re: I know.But it works. I swear it. Ret PVE w/ PVP gear
29 Jul 2011 19:52
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Grimlyn
- Posts: 4
I would agree...but this experiment has been going on since Cataclysm hit and has been a constant.When I finally received all pieces of T11 I switched every combination of armor I could think of. I still feel like it chugs along. I've been at the targeting dummies all morning testing this out further. 4 set T11 just does not have the raw power a 2set T11 + 2 set PVP set does.
Also I would like to add that doing this PVE+PVP set dps consistently pulls aggro away from tanks that are not heavily geared or do not know how to keep a large amount of threat up. The initial Zeal/AW + TB Trinket +HoS (glyphed, yes thats instant threat loss) has me pulling threat still. After the HoS I many times need to pop Divine Shield for even more threat reduction. In many fights if I get a Proc right away to send up a free inquisition and proc again for an instant verdict while using the AW/Zeal rush, I actually have to limit my dps and back off the boss because my threat lead is incredibly high.
The variation of mobs is a very nice thing to note. My counter to that is what raid do you see constantly pulling trash after trash and never stopping for a minute to gain mana or res the dead. Not many. There is usually a good 1-2 minute downtime between mob pulls at a time. That being said the 4 set and 2 sets dont even matter. Your Inquisition is gone with either one before the next mob pull. In raids (10 Mans) I handle trash mobs with extreme ease. I will either have my Gloves CD up or the TB Trinket to help out. AOE with wings or even just the trinket popped results in staggering amounts of damage. THE PROBLEM....I'm Melee.....If I send out my initial AW/Zeal rush and somehow I am stalled, stunned, etc and cannot use it within the 20 seconds it is up. Then I've wasted a HUGE amount of damage. But if I equip the T11 to get the constant DPS I can be an all around helper but not at a very heavy rate. I would guess this part of the experiment would go to your own personal preference. I for one don't really play any other class. My highest ALT is a 72 shaman. So I've not been strayed away by DPS with DOT's. Personally, I think the pally should hit hard and fast, not for constant short spurts over time. Just a personal thought. So I have actually tailored my game play to do so. I fully admit if I miss a rotation or forget to hit a trinket or CD I suffer a little, but only a little. The initial rush is best when everything is macroed together to be hit at once, but if I miss something by a few seconds it really does not hurt to much and I end up with a CD thats ticking away a little longer than the other CD's I hit before it which isn't to bad either. The trick is to be patient the next go around and wait until all those CD's are on at the same time so your not doing the same thing you did when you missed all of them at once.
On a fight like Beth I am the only DPs we send to the top because the amount I can dish out in my first burst is considerably high vs two mediocre melee. BUT, on a fight like Lord Ryloth it gets a little tricky as I need a constant stream of DPS and not a burst in order to drive him around. Ryloth is one fight I am experimenting with the T11 on. He needs the constant DPS if your groups strategy is to just turn him right (10 mans). Baleroc is allllll DPS. The Burst armor is perfect for that fight.
I guess my thoughts are...We are a badass in-and-out, smash your face, class and should be. I can get that kind of feeling from the Raw Power that the T11 PVE 2 set + PVP 2 set provide. It doesn't matter that my Inquisition is up 12 more seconds because the power I just put out equals and is more than the power lasting 12 more seconds without the AW/Zeal on. Keep in mind after Zeals gone your swinging away for 3 more HP. By the time you have enough for a verdict your Inquisition needs refreshed.
BUT. The 4 set T11 provides a constant stream of DPS. The DPS can get high but not nearly as high as the other set. It is constant though. And as such I can see it being more viable for a 25 man raid where there is a great diversity to classes. In a ten man for certain fights one person is left doing the job. And when DPS is concerned the T11 4 set just cant cut it.
So experiment if you want. Nearly all armor used is purchasable from vendors to start testing. I've actually managed to reforge and manipulate my stats enough that I can swap out the PVP/PVE 2set for the T11 4 set without any major consequences other than -45 Crit Strike. For 2 set Id suggest the T11 Chest and Pants. Then the PVP gear of Shoulders and the Gloves which add +5% Crusader Strike Damage by themselves. (I say generally PVP because the only stats that have really changed are the regular ones and not the bonus, so get what you can afford) As for the Helm with the PVP/PVE 2 set Ive been using the Engineer Goggles for a loooooong time. They are so flexible they consistently stay around the top on my DPS gear charts.
I have been getting all other Valor items before I get my 2 set of the T12 gear....but the +15% to CS possibly mixed with the 2 set T11's 10% verdict could do some considerable damage. Not to mention 2 setting a Helm/Shoulders of T11 for 10% Verdict Dmg, 2 Set of T12 Chest/Legs for +!5% CS Fire Dmg over 4 secs, the the PVP gloves with more strength and the +5% CS damage (Instant)...Could be very suprising....I'll let you know when I get them and see what happens.
If your wondering why I don't post this to WOW forums...Simple reason is flaming. The more complicated reason is experience. Many of the posts on this forum have well thought responses. It's a better place to bounce around ideas and get back answers from people interested in raiding mainly and nothing else.
Actually, I invite anyone who wants to see it in action to come to my server. Moon Guard server (Don't laugh..It wasn't really my choice. And STAY OUT OF GOLDSHIRE! You have been warned.) on the US side. Character name is Vâle (Human) (â = ALT+131). If your going to look at my Armory don't mind the tank set ;p It's a huge work in progress.
Oh *edit* There's a really good reason they give us Hand of Salvation for ret spec. It helps out Holy big. It helps out Prot by keeping threat on himself. But in ret it's because I feel I'm supposed to be doing a MASSIVE amount of damage in the 20 seconds all my CD's are going and HoS has my back when glyphed for instant threat reduction. If I were doing constant tiny DPS rushes any tank can easily keep up with that and there would be no reason to include Hand of Salvation on the ret spell list unless I'm supposed to be running around HoP, HoSalv, and HoSacrifice on everyone...I get that when I'm a Tank or when I'm Holy it is about preservation of the raid at personal expense. So I will throw out a Hand of Salv on someone or a Hand of Sacrifice to help. I greatly believe that Ret is the opposite of that. Self-Healing, damage reduction, threat reduction, mana gain. Basically helping the raid by helping themselves as much as possible. That's that cocky paladin i was talking about. If your going to be melee then your going to be up right in the middle of the fight which means what ever you can do personally to keep damage off, means a healer won't have a heart attack from clicking away like crazy.
Also I would like to add that doing this PVE+PVP set dps consistently pulls aggro away from tanks that are not heavily geared or do not know how to keep a large amount of threat up. The initial Zeal/AW + TB Trinket +HoS (glyphed, yes thats instant threat loss) has me pulling threat still. After the HoS I many times need to pop Divine Shield for even more threat reduction. In many fights if I get a Proc right away to send up a free inquisition and proc again for an instant verdict while using the AW/Zeal rush, I actually have to limit my dps and back off the boss because my threat lead is incredibly high.
The variation of mobs is a very nice thing to note. My counter to that is what raid do you see constantly pulling trash after trash and never stopping for a minute to gain mana or res the dead. Not many. There is usually a good 1-2 minute downtime between mob pulls at a time. That being said the 4 set and 2 sets dont even matter. Your Inquisition is gone with either one before the next mob pull. In raids (10 Mans) I handle trash mobs with extreme ease. I will either have my Gloves CD up or the TB Trinket to help out. AOE with wings or even just the trinket popped results in staggering amounts of damage. THE PROBLEM....I'm Melee.....If I send out my initial AW/Zeal rush and somehow I am stalled, stunned, etc and cannot use it within the 20 seconds it is up. Then I've wasted a HUGE amount of damage. But if I equip the T11 to get the constant DPS I can be an all around helper but not at a very heavy rate. I would guess this part of the experiment would go to your own personal preference. I for one don't really play any other class. My highest ALT is a 72 shaman. So I've not been strayed away by DPS with DOT's. Personally, I think the pally should hit hard and fast, not for constant short spurts over time. Just a personal thought. So I have actually tailored my game play to do so. I fully admit if I miss a rotation or forget to hit a trinket or CD I suffer a little, but only a little. The initial rush is best when everything is macroed together to be hit at once, but if I miss something by a few seconds it really does not hurt to much and I end up with a CD thats ticking away a little longer than the other CD's I hit before it which isn't to bad either. The trick is to be patient the next go around and wait until all those CD's are on at the same time so your not doing the same thing you did when you missed all of them at once.
On a fight like Beth I am the only DPs we send to the top because the amount I can dish out in my first burst is considerably high vs two mediocre melee. BUT, on a fight like Lord Ryloth it gets a little tricky as I need a constant stream of DPS and not a burst in order to drive him around. Ryloth is one fight I am experimenting with the T11 on. He needs the constant DPS if your groups strategy is to just turn him right (10 mans). Baleroc is allllll DPS. The Burst armor is perfect for that fight.
I guess my thoughts are...We are a badass in-and-out, smash your face, class and should be. I can get that kind of feeling from the Raw Power that the T11 PVE 2 set + PVP 2 set provide. It doesn't matter that my Inquisition is up 12 more seconds because the power I just put out equals and is more than the power lasting 12 more seconds without the AW/Zeal on. Keep in mind after Zeals gone your swinging away for 3 more HP. By the time you have enough for a verdict your Inquisition needs refreshed.
BUT. The 4 set T11 provides a constant stream of DPS. The DPS can get high but not nearly as high as the other set. It is constant though. And as such I can see it being more viable for a 25 man raid where there is a great diversity to classes. In a ten man for certain fights one person is left doing the job. And when DPS is concerned the T11 4 set just cant cut it.
So experiment if you want. Nearly all armor used is purchasable from vendors to start testing. I've actually managed to reforge and manipulate my stats enough that I can swap out the PVP/PVE 2set for the T11 4 set without any major consequences other than -45 Crit Strike. For 2 set Id suggest the T11 Chest and Pants. Then the PVP gear of Shoulders and the Gloves which add +5% Crusader Strike Damage by themselves. (I say generally PVP because the only stats that have really changed are the regular ones and not the bonus, so get what you can afford) As for the Helm with the PVP/PVE 2 set Ive been using the Engineer Goggles for a loooooong time. They are so flexible they consistently stay around the top on my DPS gear charts.
I have been getting all other Valor items before I get my 2 set of the T12 gear....but the +15% to CS possibly mixed with the 2 set T11's 10% verdict could do some considerable damage. Not to mention 2 setting a Helm/Shoulders of T11 for 10% Verdict Dmg, 2 Set of T12 Chest/Legs for +!5% CS Fire Dmg over 4 secs, the the PVP gloves with more strength and the +5% CS damage (Instant)...Could be very suprising....I'll let you know when I get them and see what happens.
If your wondering why I don't post this to WOW forums...Simple reason is flaming. The more complicated reason is experience. Many of the posts on this forum have well thought responses. It's a better place to bounce around ideas and get back answers from people interested in raiding mainly and nothing else.
Actually, I invite anyone who wants to see it in action to come to my server. Moon Guard server (Don't laugh..It wasn't really my choice. And STAY OUT OF GOLDSHIRE! You have been warned.) on the US side. Character name is Vâle (Human) (â = ALT+131). If your going to look at my Armory don't mind the tank set ;p It's a huge work in progress.
Oh *edit* There's a really good reason they give us Hand of Salvation for ret spec. It helps out Holy big. It helps out Prot by keeping threat on himself. But in ret it's because I feel I'm supposed to be doing a MASSIVE amount of damage in the 20 seconds all my CD's are going and HoS has my back when glyphed for instant threat reduction. If I were doing constant tiny DPS rushes any tank can easily keep up with that and there would be no reason to include Hand of Salvation on the ret spell list unless I'm supposed to be running around HoP, HoSalv, and HoSacrifice on everyone...I get that when I'm a Tank or when I'm Holy it is about preservation of the raid at personal expense. So I will throw out a Hand of Salv on someone or a Hand of Sacrifice to help. I greatly believe that Ret is the opposite of that. Self-Healing, damage reduction, threat reduction, mana gain. Basically helping the raid by helping themselves as much as possible. That's that cocky paladin i was talking about. If your going to be melee then your going to be up right in the middle of the fight which means what ever you can do personally to keep damage off, means a healer won't have a heart attack from clicking away like crazy.
3 posts -