DW Frost Dps and 4.06 update

[Masto]

I'm currently downloading the PTR and will be doing extensive testing very soon. As there have been quite a few changes to UH, I'm rather curious to see where we currently stand. If there is anything in particular you would like tested, please let me know, as EJ is quite slack in the DK department at the moment.

[zYN]

I honestly can't be bothered to fix up a PTR client once again, so I'll be happy to abuse you.

Stuff I'd like to know/test, if I could be bothered:
- Did SS keep the buff that's in the tooltip?
- Does ghoul benefit from crit rating?
- Does Outbreak etc still cause a pushback in rune energy?
- Are the numbers on the new Mastery correct?
- Does Death's Advance work against PvE snares too?
- Does Runic Corruption stack properly?


Seems like a pretty amazing patch to me.

[HeartseekerDK]

Heh, I'm not the best DK either, I need to talk to those DKs that were pulling 25k+ that I see on WoL, give me their phone numbers and I'll confirm my results =P I did the same thing for each presence and spec. Three recount tests with each one going for 5 minutes each. I also have a macro to screenshot just before I'm about to stop DPSing as numbers tend to drop when I back up to pause or such. I took up the 3 recount tests and averaged them out. Then compared. Sad part is procs play a big part of that DPS, so this is looking from a raider's perspective who gets average procs.(Basically saying I didn't go into extreme detail, just watched for numbers.) Yes, my method was flawed, but this is more or so pointing to those who often post on this forum for advise =) which quite often are casual/semi-core raiders as I have seen.
As for staying on topic, frost is an amazing spec. I love it being paired up with certain chance on melee hit procs, looking at you (H) Heart of Solace <3 trinkets. Very good physical DPS, but noticed a drop in sustained damage in longer fights. Highly worth it, though.
Heartseeker<Under World> - Duskwood

[Bloodstalker]

Synti, I don't see the point where you mention "Nobody picks frost DW for single target fights anyway". In my opinion, it is still a quite viable spec (pre 4.0.6 ofc). Like on most single target fights (Atramedes, Chimaeron) I'm within roughly ~0.5% dps range of the unholy DK we're using in our raid. This said, his avg ilvl is 2 points higher then mine (352 vs 354).

I do really notice the difference between frost and unholy, frost has some insane burst which allow me to get to 31k dps in the first minute of the fight or so but unholy has very nice sustained dps.

One question I'd like to ask, might be a bit soon to be sure but will unholy 2H be alot ahead of Frost DW on most raidbosses?

[zYN]

Maybe me and Mancheese both just play like shit when we go Frost, but we're definitely not pulling numbers anywhere close to UH. Like anywhere close. So it's a possibility that we just suck. If you do reach those numbers, just keep playing it. I'm not telling you to stop, I'm just saying what I've observed and offering my opinion based on that.

AoE encounters are the obvious exception, which I already mentioned. Frost with the ridiculous Howling Blast just dominates there.


I have no idea how stuff will be post-patch. There were just new nerfs posted for UH. Right now you'll absolutely destroy anyone playing DW Frost with a proper 2H UH setup. That's all I can say.

I also don't really care too much about the simmed theoretical values of fighting a single target dummy in a vacuum, and the DPS potential of each spec. It's good for relative statweights and possibly good info for 1-2 fights per tier, but that's it - some encounters throw even those completely out of whack (Nefarian, Magmaw etc). You have to know and understand the encounter to realize what's the optimal setup or spec.

[qbrt]

Well i think that unholy scales very very well with gear my frost DW gear is way better than the UH gear from our second Dk and on singletarget fights i cant even get close to him even with the nerfs / changes unholy will still outdps dwfrost in my opinion without a massive froststrike / obliterate / killingmachine change i think frost wont be playable in Hardmode raids excapt Magmaw Maloriak to4w and maybe Chogall

[HeartseekerDK]

All these responses to this post have severely sparked my interest. If anyone wishes to do further testing and comparing, hit me up on the ptr, Im on anesterion(spelling?), character name: Talantine. =)

[Masto]

Outside of raid times, I haven't had much play time, however I can tell you a few things:
- DW Frost is really... pointless. Simply no point now you can go 2H.
- Unholy got nerfed a bit, but really, we were ahead anyway, so now we're in line. However I haven't got a real chance to give Mastery stacking a chance.

And Synti, I'm the same when I go Frost. For our guild's Cho'Gall kill (which happened only 20 minutes ago actually), I went Frost, thinking HB would be overpowered for the adds. However, it simply didn't stack up to the sheer numbers I pulled whilst staying on Cho'Gall as UH. In Lust, with Trinkets popped and proc's lined up, my Ghoul and Garg simply destroyed my Frost dps. Sure I could kill adds faster with 3-4 HBs, but outside of that, I simply couldn't compete.

Instead, I would just help with the 3rd and 4th Adherent by spreading my aids to the Bloods, then getting our Holy Priest to Life Grip me back to Cho'Gall before I could get hit too many times by the adds. Worked MUCH better, letting us get our first kill.

/walloftext end.

And yes, I'll be testing those questions of yours, as I want to know the exact same things myself.

[Bloodstalker]

Right, this is pretty easy to find out yourself but this is what I found out:

Although people on EJ are saying that the shadow damage proportion of SS is 12% on the live servers atm;

This was done on the live server. No Scourge Strike buff talents/glyphs. No EP. 1 Disease up.

1799 Physical
216 Shadow
= 12%

It is not just a tooltip correction. The Scourge Strike buff is not currently implemented on Live servers.

I've just done a run through Vortex and managed to get these numbers on the first boss (first time unholy):
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2353/wowscrnshot011511223438.jpg

52 SS hits, making up for 422.535 + 266.199 = 688.734 damage.
100/(688.734/266.199) = 38,65% << That is with Glyph of Scourge Strike which means roughly 8% without it. This means that SS has been nerfed on the live servers?
Also, in my gear (avg ilvl 353) you should actually keep D&D on cd in your rotation: (200.363/144)x10 ticks = 13914,1 dmg << Without glyphing D&D. SS will do: (422.535 + 266.199)/52 = 13244,9 dmg. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Farnion]

100/(688.734/266.199) = 38,65%

No. This would be: 3865 %

Your math is flawed.

1799 Physical
216 Shadow
= 12%

If you would do your calculations with these numbers provided:
216 / (1799+216) = 0,107 = 10,7 %

Instead try this: 216 / 1799 = 0,12 => 12% => SS does 12 % additional shadow damage per disease